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IT07

So tired of all the disrespect towards community scripters

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Hi everyone, this time I am posting a totally different topic.

It is about the disrespect towards community scripters that is very well and alive in this huge community.

What I mean with this is that there are TONS of people/admins/players in this community that just grab whatever script they can find and trash it into their server (Most of them do not even know how)

and then EXPECT US (by us I mean the scripters) to FIX IT FOR THEM.... I mean like, where does that come from? Does the community think we are some sort of charity scripters?

 

I am so tired of all that crap. Of course I am not scripting for money, but even the amount of thanks/credits/respect is to CRY ABOUT.

At the moment of writing this, my continued version of VEMF has about 5000(!) views. And guess what? Only about 6(!!!!) different people replied by either saying thanks or some other respectful message.

Think about that again! ONLY SIX OUT OF FIVE THOUSAND were respectful enough to say thanks or something else....

To make it even worse; among those people that reply are usually people that reply with only: "uugghh It does not work" or "I have an error" or "Change that because it does not work on my server". Everytime I receive a message like that I get soooo pissed because it basically says: (excuse my French) "**** you and your script I do not care about all of that time you put into this I am just a selfish bastard that only cares about having the best scripts on my server and I give 0 ***** about the effort and time put into it. And if I have an issue I just post without even saying one word: THANKS."

 

And that is what I mean by the disrespect towards community scripters. Pfeww that is out now. I feel much better already.

The real reason why I am posting this though is that I want raise awareness of the fact that this is happening everyday and it is ruining all of the potential that can be achieved with EPOCH and ArmA.

Feel free to reply.

 

Best regards,

IT07

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I get your point IT, i myself have been a contributer to alot of games since UO say it's freeshard releases..

 

BUT..

 

I always did it cause i love doing it, and as soon as i get a grip on how to do it properly here, i will do the very same for Epoch.

One need to realize that there will be alot of very very new beginners trying this stuff out, and helping them will probably not get your picture in the paper, or paper in your wallet :)

(It could though, i donated to a few creators so far but i dont represent everyone.)

 

I feel creating content like you do here is much like running a server, it takes a whole lot of time, and a whole lot of user support, and well if fun and enjoyment isnt in the picture then why bother ?

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That is a very good point but the things is, I am not coding only because I like to do it myself, I also do it because I know from my admin days how it sucks to have bad scripts on the server that almost never function. So one of the reasons I started making stuff for the community is simply because I want to make it FOR the community. So when there is not really any kind of appreciation coming back, then what is the purpose of it?

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tldr the first part, but i think i get your point ... you feel unapriciated and is sick of 14yo server admins that does not respect you?

 

personally i do not see it as a problem, if someone thinks i need to fix something for them when i spend the time to write the script not to mention shared it on this forum, then i wont mind telling them off.

 

on the other hand i also dont mind helping ppl if they got a problem, wich often ends up in some nice conversations on ts.

 

im not sure what kind of appreciation are you looking for, personally i regualry get donations on my paypal from server admins who enjoy my scripts, even tho i dont advertise my paypal info or solicit donations like that.

i just send my apriciations when someone does so and invite them to come to my ts, wich also often ends up in some nice conversations .

 

granted its probably only a fraction of who actually uses some of my work who shows appreciation like that, however tbh im not even interested in donations at all, i would rather see more players visit my server.

 

i do think its kinda funny however when players come to my ts server claiming they are on my epoch server, cause they saw my ts info in the spawn menu, when they spawned in, and i have to explain to them that yes i made the spaw system but it is not my server they are playing on and the reason its my ts info is cause the server admin is either too lazy or dont know how to edit the stringtable.xml  :lol:  ....

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tldr the first part, but i think i get your point ... you feel unapriciated and is sick of 14yo server admins that does not respect you?

 

personally i do not see it as a problem, if someone thinks i need to fix something for them when i spend the time to write the script not to mention shared it on this forum, then i wont mind telling them off.

 

on the other hand i also dont mind helping ppl if they got a problem, wich often ends up in some nice conversations on ts.

 

im not sure what kind of appreciation are you looking for, personally i regualry get donations on my paypal from server admins who enjoy my scripts, even tho i dont advertise my paypal info or solicit donations like that.

i just send my apriciations when someone does so and invite them to come to my ts, wich also often ends up in some nice conversations .

 

granted its probably only a fraction of who actually uses some of my work who shows appreciation like that, however tbh im not even interested in donations at all, i would rather see more players visit my server.

 

i do think its kinda funny however when players come to my ts server claiming they are on my epoch server, cause they saw my ts info in the spawn menu, when they spawned in, and i have to explain to them that yes i made the spaw system but it is not my server they are playing on and the reason its my ts info is cause the server admin is either too lazy or dont know how to edit the stringtable.xml  :lol:  ....

Oh that's some sneaky marketing right there, brilliant :)))

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IT07 - Views aren't "Unique" - for example, I check out your VEMF post numerous times a week just because there are lots of conversations and useful information on there. So those 5000 views are probably a lot less unique views. In terms of appreciation, all the scripts I've personally used I send thanks and give feedback - like yourself, I loved it so much I donated and will do again at the end of the month when I get paid because the amount of support you've given and updates is absolutely astonishing. 

 

Yes, there are many others that just come and do a "snatch and grab" which is totally unfair - forgetting that it is persons own time to actually make these awesome scripts and make EPOCH what it is today. But then, we all have to remember, all of this is free and nobody should be expecting rewards from it but the appreciations from other people - which at times like you said isn't received.

From me though, my two pence, I appreciate you and every other contributor that makes my server worthwhile and my players (although not many atm) really happy and coming back every day!

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If you make a script, and you sign up for giving support. Some people dont care about the time you put in it becuase they take it for granted, that doesnt mean they are disrespecting your work. They just want to get the script working. 

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As someone who has put more than 2000 hours of their free time into scripting, here are some of my viewpoints:

 

Regarding thanks vs. complaints, there will always be more complaints because those experiencing problems will always be the vocal minority. People who enjoy a coder's work will most likely just go on their happy ways without posting anything. People who can't get something running, whether due to their own fault or the coder's, are much more likely to complain. That is why you can't simply compare the number of compliments against the number of complaints. It's hard, I know, but distancing yourself from people's complaints and not letting them get to you is something that takes time and effort to do (I'm still working on this myself).

 

However, I agree that it is extremely annoying as a coder myself to receive vague and demanding support requests like "X doesn't work" or simply posting an error from the RPT log (if they even manage to find the log...) without any context whatsoever. Whenever I see requests for help like that without any useful information whatsoever, it makes me feel completely helpless to help the person asking for support. It's not that I don't want to offer support, but because I can't help when absolutely no useful information has been given. Tracking down bugs and fixing them can take an enormous amount of time, especially ones that only happen under specific and difficult-to-replicate circumstances. If you don't throw me a bone with detailed RPT log information or description of the issue, I can't do anything.

 

The closest thing I see that resembles disrespect is what I call "backseat coding", or demands for features from people that treat the project like it is being custom-made for them specifically. I can go on and on about backseat coding, but I think that one of the reasons why so many scripting projects get abandoned after a few weeks or months is that the developers keep giving into every request thrown at them, and eventually their project gets so bloated with features that the end product is something that they don't even recognize at the end of the day.

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While I may not say thanks enough, the people writing the scripts and mod are fantastic. I used to code back in the 90s and soon found it gives me a headache, so I cannot spend enough time doing it. Finding people that not only enjoy doing it, but are actually doing it to help the community, can never get enough thanks and unfortuantly, you wont. Its how the world is. I spent the last 8 years working in IT, doing Help Desk and now Cybersecurity. I rarely get a job well done, I only get the complaints and the WTF!, which is fine, cause it improves me overall. I do miss the WOO HOOs and the 5 Stars, but life is never going to give you that. If you feel that its getting under your skin, or is making you feel unwanted, take a break. Get away from scripting/coding, get away from Arma 3. Go try something new and different. Realize there is more to life than this. Once you have a break and clear your mind, re-think how things are here and decide if you think its worth it to come back. I will always welcome you with open arms.

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I released a few scripts here and I always mention that I'm not going to support any of those. If people ask specific questions about my scripts then I will help, but I completely ignore the complainers that plague this forum.

 

If you did not write a line of code in your life I would not expect for you to understand how much work and time goes into script writing, testing and debugging. And I will not take any time to respond to those complaints. Let alone be frustrated about them.

 

IT07 - cheer up and don't stop creating awesome scripts!

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Hey You,
I am a person of forums is not much to write because I am the English language is not as powerful. I respect the valuable work of the scripter and I am also very grateful, even though I do not always write this.
This ingratitude and disrespect not only pertains to the scripter but increasingly some server operators. More and more people are coming to the server and have nothing else to do like all the time to complain that you do not like everything. No one comes up with the idea to write also times "Thanks for you for free a server ask where you can also play for free yet" that makes me all very sad.
Sorry for my bad english .... goggle translated

Lg Jürgen

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You have to remember that some people are not EXPECTING help, they are just asking a simple question.

 

Plus, you also have to remember that I had already said that it was a great script on the previous page and that I thought it looked great when I had added it previously. I was only asking for instructions this time because I couldn't find any in your readme.md file. I have checked them again today, and still cannot see them.

 

Sometimes, I think that people just read what others are asking in the wrong tone. It's the internet after all. It's just text, you can't tell what tone it is asked in to know whether it is a complaint about something or whether they're asking a genuine question.

 

Dont worry though, I have reported my post in your thread and asked the mods to tidy the thread up so that people dont look at the thread and think 'Im not using his script if he talks to people needing help like that'. i.e. FOR YOUR BENEFIT (and that was before I saw this thread as well)

 

Also, I dont disrespect any of the coders. I envy you all quite a lot. I couldn't write a script like you guys do. Yes, I can add them onto a server, correct mistakes if there are some (for instance, the blackmarket trader was looking at the wrong pricing file, which I corrected after someone pointed it out), but writing new ones is a whole new ball game. I've told various people that their scripts are good. I've given Ghostrider credit for having great servers to play on. I thanked (i think it was) Halv/Suppe for a great script as well, I even said that your introCredits script was good when it was just that script in the download file and included instructions.

 

For those of you who are confused about this post, it was most likely me who caused IT07 to post this, because he decided to have a rant at me when I asked him if there were any instructions for installing the introcredits script.

 

Paul

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Paul, I created this thread way before you even posted so do not think this post is here because of you.

About the instructions: they were there. And if someone then posts and says they are not there even though they are, that can really hit my fuse. Sorry about that.

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What You read in those script release threads is mostly coming from casual (and/or teen) players that saw the Mod on YouTube and thought it would be "so cool" to have their own server.

My advice:

Don't expect too much from todays ArmA community (especially the com. around popular Mods), and just do Your thing for Yourself.

And don't count the "thanks", but rather think about all the downloads and installs of Your scripts that You don't know about because the person actually did read the instructions and just forgot to come back and leave a reply or some positive feedback.

If You look in this forum, one could think this community is full with immature, always demanding and ignorant teens, but in fact You don't hear/read much from the people that "do it right" (I think You understand what I’m trying to say).

Heads up and have a good one!

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I can understand his point, same goes for owners helping other owners but they get no appreciation either. Forums are just a discussion board designed to share ideas and receive help when needed. The scripting devs do In fact need more recognition for the work they do because if it wasn't for them epoch would be dead in the water! You guys can say oh no way but facts are facts and just look at epoch DEVS servers versus ones with scripts like epoch pro, MGT, etc.

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Agree with Kiloswiss. I break it down to inexperience and the time of year. Younger generation is out for the summer and setting up servers willy nilly. They want everything to work first time. And if it doesn't it's the script author's fault.  And with some posts I read that were hidden by Richie is just showing the immature nature of them. I've made this comment before and I will say it again. You need to understand that those scripts that are in http://epochmod.com/forum/index.php?/forum/64-a3-epoch-resources/and Epoch itself are made by REAL people, using their FREE time, and for FREE. They have taken the time out of their day to create something for you to use. If you have a problem then know how to use proper etiquette. You will get a better response. Simply stating, "Your script is fucking broke", will get you nowhere. Try "I'm running so and so scripts and I have this error in my rpt with your script enabled." And do remember the authors do not run every script/addon that you may run. Rule I live by. Run a script on a vanilla server via server on your pc, or a virtual box, or a spare pc. If it works there, then if it breaks on your live server you have done something wrong. And please read through the thread of the script. It may be many pages long, but more then likely somebody has come across the same problem and found a solution. The search bar  http://epochmod.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1 does work!! Spitting out posts with some of the vitriol I have read only makes the process of improving slow and/or come to a standstill.

 

tl:dr..Ask yourself how would you feel about your post if it was to you before you hit that "post" button.

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The thing is, yes there alot of immature server owners, just go on and look on youtube how people getting ban from servers when they kill a owner/admin, but you should also know, that not all people are made the same, and IT07 you have it your sign “The only reason why I can code is because I was created with a mind that can”. Me for example, I'm not wired like that. And like I have said in numerus post, I have a hard time with scripting, and me getting the answer, I'll give you a hint....... look for this and look for that. That doesn't help me s**t, and why???  I'm not wired like that. I can do this all day.

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Just because I can't make my own scripts, does that mean that I shouldn't be allow to have a server? This idea that "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" dosen't really work here, why? Because you dosen't teach by saying go and look for this. I made this back and I really appreciates the time and effort you guys put in to this. Just remeber that not all people are made the same, and just because we are not jumping and cheering of joy every time we get the fish quote it dosen't mean that we don't appreciates you guys and girls.

 

And by using "you", I don't mean you IT07 personally, just so you know.

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Maybe it's just me, but I figred if I want to run a  server, then I need to learn SQF and the tools.

 

Many people are too lazy to put forth the effort to learn something new and rather pay for it or worse, expect it.

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Maybe it's just me, but I figred if I want to run a  server, then I need to learn SQF and the tools.

 

It makes sense but the forum is full of 'Daddy rented me a server, now i'll use daddies money and pay someone to add scripts or if daddy won't pay they can be admins' :rolleyes:

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Stop scripting. If you are going to cry about not being paid thanks for your work, simply stop making it. Easy solution tbh. Or you can keep making stuff and releasing it and realise ppl are ungreatful, and not cry about it and have a happier life, and save 2 mins of your life by not postiung a rant about ungreatful people that will acheive nothing.

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Stop scripting. If you are going to cry about not being paid thanks for your work, simply stop making it. Easy solution tbh. Or you can keep making stuff and releasing it and realise ppl are ungreatful, and not cry about it and have a happier life, and save 2 mins of your life by not postiung a rant about ungreatful people that will acheive nothing.

 

I can see where you got your name from. And clearly you are not a scripter yourself because you would've known what I mean. It is not about the money. It is all about respect.

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Hi, I know practically zero about the work that all you script creators do, I am a 44 year old server owner, my admins run it, I respect and always thank the creators of the scripts that I use, and I think almost everyone I have asked a "question" or two lol, However, first think I put is THANK YOU. Having been made redundant, making donations to creators is difficult as I am trying to keep the website, server and TS going.

 

However without you guys I would not have a server, It would be easy for you to keep your scripts on your own servers and I thank you all again for releasing them to the community.

 

You guys are great, and there is nothing wrong with having a rant or two every now and again.

 

Best Regards

 

Simon

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It makes sense but the forum is full of 'Daddy rented me a server, now i'll use daddies money and pay someone to add scripts or if daddy won't pay they can be admins' :rolleyes:

 

A lot of people are just running their own servers because they want to play EPOCH their way, which to me is what EPOCH was really every all about to me. You have language issues as English is the only accepted language on the forums and yes you have some idiots but starting up on the whole daddy rented me a server rant isn't productive at all here, especially from staff don't you think?

 

I actually avoided this thread for the first few days because I really didn't agree with it. I am sure I am going to get some hate thrown back at me for this but here is my take on it:

 

If you choose to share a script here, you really should be ready and expecting some idiots to come into the mix. Grow some thicker skin and move forward, if it's too much for you then by all rights you don't have to post your work here, and while that would be a shame it may be best for YOU. I have always spoken my appreciation to those that share, as I don't have the time or the brain cycles at this point in my life to start learning programming again fully. I have always tried to provide constructive feedback on any script I use because I presume the developer wants to hear that sort of thing. However, coming from an IT background myself and a program management background I am all too familiar with a DEV getting tunnel vision on "his baby" and not really wanting to hear any feedback other than it's perfect and awesome. I have been there, I know how it feel to hear that what you thought was total awesomeness maybe wasn't what was ideal.

 

It doesn't matter where you are, you are going to go through life dealing with the unappreciative. If you haven't adjusted yourself to them then online forums are probably the worst place you could possibly be. While I did not write most of the script I do have one here that I worked on together with second_coming. It was worth sharing with the community and there are probably still a few admins using it. I have had some stupid questions come through my thread. I helped who I could and if they weren't giving me enough information and being demanding I just left them to struggle with it. It's just that easy.

 

I have seen PLENTY of praises on VEMF, and all the other scripts shared here. Nothing personal to any other community dev here but I would create golden calves in my worship of Face and what he has given the community with A3EAI. That script is like the cornerstone of all I put out for EPOCH. So why are any of us paying attention to what we all should have known was gonna come with a new EPOCH mod?

 

IT07, you already have the respect from anyone on here that should matter to you. I am not sure what you are hoping to get from all the self serving types.. .or why.

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