Discussion: Official Server Files Release Date!

[vbawol]

I am guessing this could be because of false reports of bugs that were actually caused by third party addons.

 

To be honest there's a lot of dilemma that comes with this, but then again - nothing's impossible, most of addons, including mine, grew with bad habit of using compiles and variables, where installation (for example SBP) could be as simple as adding a single line to init.sqf file. The positive thing about this is script compatibility, but it comes with a lot of hacky workarounds and headaches... the dilemma and problems starts when you are trying to improve functionality of original code of mod (player_build fnc was a perfect example), limits like these will either make people work together or ... probably scare ton of potential contributors away from the mod.

If this is true, this could turn out quite ugly as our community doesn't really like running vanilla and tries their best to be as unique as possible.

To certain extent it is still a race for amount of players after all, and if you are not a coder... well sucks to be you, right?

 

I mean look at DayZ SA servers... what's the bloody point? I just don't get the idea of paying for zero control over such powerful modding engine as Arma. Epoch will allow for limited modifications, but I just feel skeptical about this whole thing, not sure how this will impact the community, how long till players gets bored?

Take a look at A2 epoch, people pretty much stopped releasing scripts lately, mod is... kinda dead. More servers than players out there, my server empty for a month, had to cancel my dedi yesterday. It's not the Epoch to blame ofc, all blame goes to DZC after issues with 1.0.4.2 and beta, and hybrid mods like overpoch did not help the cause, in fact we kind of scared off bambis that didn't like idea of additional launch params... these are all limitations or limiting factors, if you think about it. 

 

Devs probably have very good reasons for this, but you gotta admit, limiting modding community will make them turn to other projects instead. And what is an open source project with no contributors? A Dead one. 

 

/me sends positive vibes

 

Its not that we want to limit the modding community but want to see actual mods made instead of just changes to our existing code. We will release documentation on our backend systems so that everyone can take advantage of what I think is a really powerful and flexible system.

 

I would like to also provide examples of how to make a proper server side mod for Epoch with example usage of our backend. The end goal is to make Epoch a framework that people will want to run along side their own mods just for what it offers.

 

If everyone makes mods that work this way it will be easier for everyone to update and as a result cause less support issues in total as well as allow us to make sure the core of Epoch is error free and flexible. A lot is possible with server side mods and mission files and as the distribution issues get sorted out (steamworks) we may see client side mods use Epoch much in the same way people use CBA today.

 

That said keep in mind that we are still only 20% feature complete and will be adding many more features so for most people it may not be a good idea to jump into making a mod for Epoch just yet.

[KingBullGod]

How is it possible to act on legal action when Epoch is open source? and does this only include making money or does it also include modifying files?

 

Epoch isn't Open Source, and it cannot be Open Source because (apparently) they use a Creative Commons-license (check vbawol's link) that is strictly incompatible with the definition of Open Source.

 

Epoch uses a Creative Commons BY-NC-ND license which means you cannot use their work in a commercial fashion, nor are you allowed to modify or extend their work.

 

So it is very possible for them to take legal action if you don't abide by the license terms. But seriously, read their license.

[Zupa]

Epoch isn't Open Source, and it cannot be Open Source because (apparently) they use a Creative Commons-license (check vbawol's link) that is strictly incompatible with the definition of Open Source.

 

Epoch uses a Creative Commons BY-NC-ND license which means you cannot use their work in a commercial fashion, nor are you allowed to modify or extend their work.

 

So it is very possible for them to take legal action if you don't abide by the license terms. But seriously, read their license.

 

That license allows you to use and change their code but not distribute it. That what i understand reading the license.

 

 

 

• Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, andindicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.

• NonCommercial — You may not use the material for commercial purposes.

• NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material.

[Zupa]

Its not that we want to limit the modding community but want to see actual mods made instead of just changes to our existing code. We will release documentation on our backend systems so that everyone can take advantage of what I think is a really powerful and flexible system.

 

I would like to also provide examples of how to make a proper server side mod for Epoch with example usage of our backend. The end goal is to make Epoch a framework that people will want to run along side their own mods just for what it offers.

 

If everyone makes mods that work this way it will be easier for everyone to update and as a result cause less support issues in total as well as allow us to make sure the core of Epoch is error free and flexible. A lot is possible with server side mods and mission files and as the distribution issues get sorted out (steamworks) we may see client side mods use Epoch much in the same way people use CBA today.

 

That said keep in mind that we are still only 20% feature complete and will be adding many more features so for most people it may not be a good idea to jump into making a mod for Epoch just yet.

 

Thats good to hear VBAWOL. Appreciate what you are trying to acomplish.

 

To a more technical matter on the subject. Wil their be support or easy additions to be made for making own tables with data in the database for those independent modifications ( and ways to get those to the server ofc ^^ )? SO that we don't have to alter code as the current A2 Epoch scripts mostly do to keep it easy for everyone.

[KingBullGod]

That license allows you to use and change their code but not distribute it. That what i understand reading the license.

 

Yes, you're right. I looked up what CC legal code states:

 

1. "Distribute" means to make available to the public the original and copies of the Work through sale or other transfer of ownership.

 

So modding Epoch is fine... legally speaking.

[carl101]

Seems they have asked people not to modify there code and people are looking for legal ways around that,

That's what I'm getting from this entire thread.

[PetuniaEpoch]

The CC license does seem to allow, as pointed out above, edits so long as you don't distribute those changes 

 

Of course if you mod the mission.pbo then technically you WILL be distributing that in a way, as it's downloaded to client machines ;) Server pbo, not. Not sure if mission.pbo would be classed as distributing?

 

That said, now vbawol has explained the reasons for their request and how they want EPOCH to develop into a framework, I quite like the challenge of making mods for EPOCH, without changing their files (except of course calls to the mods from the init file or server side :D).

 

I for one will be sticking to their request irrespective of what the CC license says - I'll just plan ways to make interesting additions that are like stand-alone mods, as I can see why the EPOCH devs request that instead, makes sense! :) 

 

Love the idea that the devs will be giving some guidance on how to make mods for EPOCH too :D

 

EXCITING TIMES!!! 

[KingBullGod]

Seems they have asked people not to modify there code and people are looking for legal ways around that,

That's what I'm getting from this entire thread.

 

People are curious about what the license agreement says and what it is they will have to abide by when the files are out. I don't know about you, but I personally make sure I've first read and fully understood an agreement before I sign it. I feel like I'm not alone on that; people want to know what their agreeing to and that's what their actually asking here. At least that's what I'm getting from this thread.

 

Of course if you mod the mission.pbo then technically you WILL be distributing that in a way, as it's downloaded to client machines ;) Server pbo, not. Not sure if mission.pbo would be classed as distributing?

 

Not true. Read my last reply - just a few posts above.

[Flosstradamus]

So you're saying we can make scripts so long as we don't modify your server code but don't scripts utilize the compiles, init, etc of the server files?

[raymix]

So you're saying we can make scripts so long as we don't modify your server code but don't scripts utilize the compiles, init, etc of the server files?

 

Should be fine if they go with something like we've applied similar idea it to our little mod with Rimblock and it works like a charm, all you literary need to do is add string to init.sqf that corresponds to file and function names. It is then be dynamically picked up, only empty functions would be compiled without need of bringing compiles over to mission file, this concept is way better than one A2 epoch uses. Ofcourse this still lets you modify existing functions and code, but at least it beats the need to bring over original files for small modifications.

Ofcourse all of this is not really required to compile your own functions, but it's still pretty cool concept and saves on amount of file lines (removes duplicate code on hundreds of lines by counting strings instead)

[Flosstradamus]

Should be fine if they go with something like we've applied similar idea it to our little mod with Rimblock and it works like a charm, all you literary need to do is add string to init.sqf that corresponds to file and function names. It will then dynamically pick up your files and only compile empty functions without need of bringing compiles over to mission file, this concept is way better than one A2 epoch uses. Ofcourse this still lets you modify existing functions and code, but at least it beats the need to bring over original files for small modifications.

Ofcourse all of this is not really required to compile your own functions, but it's still pretty cool concept and saves on amount of file lines (removes duplicate code on hundreds of lines by counting strings instead)

Sounds good thanks for the explanation ray

[DoberMan Pin-Sure]

Can anyone script a time warp tool to get us to December 1st faster?  I'll pay top dollar!

[SkyDogs]

Freeze yourself.

[Flosstradamus]

Since this wasn't answered before i'll ask this here. Since your skaronator anti hack is integrated with the server files will it still be possible for us to legally remove it and use Infistar? I don't care about your beef with him or the politics I just want to use his tool instead.

[Tobias Solem]

Since this wasn't answered before i'll ask this here. Since your skaronator anti hack is integrated with the server files will it still be possible for us to legally remove it and use Infistar? I don't care about your beef with him or the politics I just want to use his tool instead.

There are changeable variables in Epoch for this very purpose.

[Flosstradamus]

There are changeable variables in Epoch for this very purpose.

I don't want changeable variables though. I want to use whatever tool I want to combat hackers. This is why I enjoy the freedom of Arma 2 Epoch.

[Uriziel]

@Flosstradamus

 

I think he means that you can activate/deactivate the build in anti-cheat tool with the variable.

 

Like:

 

enable_anti_cheat true/false

[Tobias Solem]

Yes Urziel. That's precisely what I meant.

[Flosstradamus]

Oh I thought you meant like change what features u want on or off inside the anti hack itself

[koriaba]

I'm sorry that I wrote here, not on the forum, for applications ... and now closed topic.
We - a group of game servers Siberia, Kemerovo, gamezone.o-go.ru belongs Siberian provider.
Maybe if we, as an exception, to join your club?
I understand that the topic is closed, but there is always hope ...
Very fond of Epoch...

HP Proliant BL460c Gen8 Server Blade 2x Xeon Six-Core E5-2620 V2 (2 CPU, 2.1 GHz, 15Mb cashe, QPI)/32Gb (2x16) pc3-12800 DDR3/HDD 2tbSATA-II

We have been playing in Dayz...

http://forums.dayzga...деква/?p=992547

[carl101]

I'm sorry that I wrote here, not on the forum, for applications ... and now closed topic.

We - a group of game servers Siberia, Kemerovo, gamezone.o-go.ru belongs Siberian provider.

Maybe if we, as an exception, to join your club?

I understand that the topic is closed, but there is always hope ...

Very fond of Epoch...

HP Proliant BL460c Gen8 Server Blade 2x Xeon Six-Core E5-2620 V2 (2 CPU, 2.1 GHz, 15Mb cashe, QPI)/32Gb (2x16) pc3-12800 DDR3/HDD 2tbSATA-II

We have been playing in Dayz...

http://forums.dayzga...деква/?p=992547

The topics closed for a reason, the application process is no longer open due to files getting released December

[koriaba]

The topics closed for a reason, the application process is no longer open due to files getting released December

 

Clearly, thanks.

[airtonix]

Will there be a Linux build?

 

Please.... this. Windows is a shitty platform for servers .. 

 

Make it run on linux then we can trivialise installing servers with docker images.

 

docker.fucking.rocks.

[Oshydaka]

@Devs how the loot stuff will happen in custom map buildings ?

 

Let's say i wan't to make like a church in the middle of the huge salt desert, and i add it to the mission.sqm for my server.

 

Will this church is going to spawn loot ?

[Tobias Solem]

@Devs how the loot stuff will happen in custom map buildings ?

 

Let's say i wan't to make like a church in the middle of the huge salt desert, and i add it to the mission.sqm for my server.

 

Will this church is going to spawn loot ?

 

No, you need to define loot spawn positions for it to do so.