Is loot spawning working as supposed to?

[KPABATOK]

After trying out new patch I noticed that loot hardly spawns now, my only chance of survival is trashpiles, not furniture anymore. If I am in a town, I find only one house with furniture loot at best, even though I am running around it for almost half an hour, loot just does not spawn or maybe the timer between spawns now is bigger?

Was there any changes in loot spawning and/or timer? Out of 2 hours of me playing Epoch I found only 3 houses/buildings with furniture and I am pretty sure it hasn't been like this before, loot used to spawn almost instantly once you aproach for instance two houses, one of them usually will have loot and same thing was in tows, almost in every 5th or 6th building loot spawned once you spent some time in the vicinity.

In this patch, however, it's not the case anymore. Tested on 3 different servers.

 

Important note: my internet is currently 3Mb/s download speed (but is literally cheaper than pack of cigarettes so can't complain), but I doubt that this is the problem, since other loot, for example, scripted loot (server specific), spawns instantly and I tried both, low and high ping servers. So maybe it is just Epoch loot which is bugged? Any ideas and similar experience?

[arc7r7]

I've wondered the same thing. Since 0.3.8 I rarely find lootable objects in buildings anymore. I'de like to know how to increase the chances for loot objects.

[BetterDeadThanZed]

When you say the "new patch" are you referring to 0.3.8 or the latest build that awol has released? What maps are you playing on? I had to add a bunch of buildings to the loot table on my Esseker server because they were missing from the loot table. The server admins can set the chances for loot to spawn. Perhaps the admins on the servers you played on set the loot chances low? 

[KPABATOK]

It can not be that out of 4 random servers I chose to play in admins happened to set "low loot chances" manually. Most people just add loot, not remove it. And it seems now that in basic Epoch loot almost doesn't spawn. Went to Kavala, only 3 buildings had any loot over my 1 hour of searching. There's definitely has something been done to loot chances. I do not mind admins having ability to change it (if they hadn't before), but the default values should be higher. I just died probably first time me playing Epoch from thirst because no loot in whole towns. Only trashpiles left, but since Kavala has very little of trashpiles (forgot about that), I died on the street by the hospital like a bum :D

 

P.S. what new build was released? I play the build that I found on main webpage, downloaded it last week. Seems like new patch since can join every server.

[mgm]

1 hour ago, BetterDeadThanZed said:

When you say the "new patch" are you referring to 0.3.8 or the latest build that awol has released? What maps are you playing on? I had to add a bunch of buildings to the loot table on my Esseker server because they were missing from the loot table. The server admins can set the chances for loot to spawn. Perhaps the admins on the servers you played on set the loot chances low? 

KPABATOK has been away for several months due to his PC issues. so he means 0.3.8.

[mgm]

the moment you realize you are up to speed on who has been away from forums, for how long, and why... it is a BIG sign you're spending too much time on the forums and should look for a (new) hobby!! 

[BetterDeadThanZed]

1 hour ago, KPABATOK said:

It can not be that out of 4 random servers I chose to play in admins happened to set "low loot chances" manually.

By default, loot spawn chances are set kinda low. I increased mine.

1 hour ago, KPABATOK said:

what new build was released?

awol releases new server updates that server owners can apply. They aren't client updates.

[TheStainlessSteelRat]

22 hours ago, KPABATOK said:

After trying out new patch I noticed that loot hardly spawns now, my only chance of survival is trashpiles, not furniture anymore. If I am in a town, I find only one house with furniture loot at best, even though I am running around it for almost half an hour, loot just does not spawn or maybe the timer between spawns now is bigger?

Was there any changes in loot spawning and/or timer? Out of 2 hours of me playing Epoch I found only 3 houses/buildings with furniture and I am pretty sure it hasn't been like this before, loot used to spawn almost instantly once you aproach for instance two houses, one of them usually will have loot and same thing was in tows, almost in every 5th or 6th building loot spawned once you spent some time in the vicinity.

In this patch, however, it's not the case anymore. Tested on 3 different servers.

 

Important note: my internet is currently 3Mb/s download speed (but is literally cheaper than pack of cigarettes so can't complain), but I doubt that this is the problem, since other loot, for example, scripted loot (server specific), spawns instantly and I tried both, low and high ping servers. So maybe it is just Epoch loot which is bugged? Any ideas and similar experience?

Loot spawning has changed. It used to be that loot spawned 'in front' of player as they searched through an area. Apparently it now spawns 'around' a player as they search through an area, this means it could now spawn in buildings behind you that you have left as much as buildings ahead of you in direction of travel. Can't remember where i read this but will add source once found. (Thanks He-Man for adding source as well as being the source, see below) 

Personally feel this again disadvantages the lone player and helps those in groups, which has always been my biggest criticism of Epoch. Imagine four players in diamond formation sweeping through town first player triggers loot, left and right players catch stuff on their wings and rear guard hoovers up behind. Of course loot is also spawning for each of the players in the group, pattern repeats.

[He-Man]

 

[rvg?!]

I would like to have the old spawning system back aswell. Reasons already pointed out by several users here.

[KPABATOK]

11 hours ago, TheStainlessSteelRat said:

Loot spawning has changed. It used to be that loot spawned 'in front' of player as they searched through an area. Apparently it now spawns 'around' a player as they search through an area, this means it could now spawn in buildings behind you that you have left as much as buildings ahead of you in direction of travel. Can't remember where i read this but will add source once found. (Thanks He-Man for adding source as well as being the source, see below) 

Personally feel this again disadvantages the lone player and helps those in groups, which has always been my biggest criticism of Epoch. Imagine four players in diamond formation sweeping through town first player triggers loot, left and right players catch stuff on their wings and rear guard hoovers up behind. Of course loot is also spawning for each of the players in the group, pattern repeats.

 

yeah it now seems that loot spawn chances is as low as they were in 2.5.2 build and earlier where players couldn't find any loot so joined only servers with specific ground loot. Why devs decided to mess around with it is beyond me, it was all fine. One can reduce chance of spawning certain items, like guns or food (to encourage hunting more), but now  loot does not spawn normally at all, and this "around you" is not very true, since it can be 1km radius, so one should run 1km around town searching for this one building with loot? Madness.

 As I said before, I was in Kavala, ran through town then climbed on top on hospital, saw only one building with loot spawned far away by the castle for some reason. Loot used to spawn in hospital too, then I spent there almost an hour - hadn't spawned.

This patch is kinda unplayable for me due to this issue. Looting was most fun part of Epoch, now it looks broken and downgraded from previous iterations. Also it kinda breaks immersion too, and as you said, for lone wolf now it is impossible to survive and even start building a base unless you sell cars and buy stuff from traders.

Loot should be the top priority of every survivor, not selling items and buying. Now by default this spawning of furniture is close to zero. From running simulator it became run around in town in circle searching for one building which spawned you loot at specific time interval.

 

P.S. if it was done to increase difficulty of the game, the what should have been done was to make certain guns or items spawn less. Like high grade vests, ghillie suits, etc, all these things can spawn less. Not removing of the spawning of loot. Since backtracking constantly is pain in the ass. For instance I want to go from Pyrgos to Neochori and loot on my way. So by this loot spawn model I must go to airport on foot and then come back and pick up all the loot that spawned behind me then go back to Neochori for second time. I see no sense in that. Frustrating is understatement :D Gearing up as you go is impossible since you will never reach your destination if you run around in circles and even come back to your previous locations.

[BetterDeadThanZed]

15 hours ago, KPABATOK said:

 As I said before, I was in Kavala, ran through town then climbed on top on hospital, saw only one building with loot spawned far away by the castle for some reason. Loot used to spawn in hospital too, then I spent there almost an hour - hadn't spawned.

This patch is kinda unplayable for me due to this issue. Looting was most fun part of Epoch, now it looks broken and downgraded from previous iterations. Also it kinda breaks immersion too, and as you said, for lone wolf now it is impossible to survive and even start building a base unless you sell cars and buy stuff from traders.

All you have to do is find a server where the server admin has adjusted the loot spawns. I increased the number to 75%. I think the current default is around 30%.

[phm]

Been playing 0.3.8 Build 440 for a bit now.  It seems that snakes, goats, rabbits, chickens, sheep, etc. never spawn meat now.  Putting together a full food cooler used to be a hedge against starving.  Is anyone getting meat from slain animals?

 

EDIT: Found this thread that attempts to explain why it's broken, or perhaps this is the way it's supposed to work now?  Why even have animals in the space if you can't get meat from them?  Sigh.  I guess meat is babycore.

[Grahame]

No, that issue was supposed to be resolved in build 440, though I'd added them manually and didn't change CfgPricing when the new build came out since all the changes were already in mine. Hadn't seen follow up so I assumed it was fixed. Maybe server owner has a custom CfgPricing and didn't add the carcasses? Not a babycore issue and I agree on the Food Cooler backup - a roast chicken, sweetcorn and food cooler keeps you going for hours...

[phm]

Definitely not fixed in build 440.

[BetterDeadThanZed]

Meat spawns for me with 440. 

[KPABATOK]

8 hours ago, BetterDeadThanZed said:

All you have to do is find a server where the server admin has adjusted the loot spawns. I increased the number to 75%. I think the current default is around 30%.

this does not fix the problem, which is - default spawning is broken. I prefer vanilla mode all the way and it is better to test it this way and then report bugs. Which I did by making this thread. Also finding "server with higher chance loot" is impossible since there are no filters as such, and actually playable servers without stupid mods and scripts are like 4 or 5 from 200 or so epoch servers.

[BetterDeadThanZed]

3 hours ago, KPABATOK said:

this does not fix the problem, which is - default spawning is broken. I prefer vanilla mode all the way and it is better to test it this way and then report bugs. Which I did by making this thread. Also finding "server with higher chance loot" is impossible since there are no filters as such, and actually playable servers without stupid mods and scripts are like 4 or 5 from 200 or so epoch servers.

I guess mine is one of those "4 or 5". I've hardly made any changes except increasing the loot chances and adding buildings that were missing. 

The default settings are not broken just because they aren't what someone likes. That's why you are able to configure settings. If I didn't like my server to start during the day time, I wouldn't say the default settings are broken just because by default the server starts during the day.

This falls more into the suggestions category.

[Grahame]

3 hours ago, KPABATOK said:

this does not fix the problem, which is - default spawning is broken. I prefer vanilla mode all the way and it is better to test it this way and then report bugs. Which I did by making this thread. Also finding "server with higher chance loot" is impossible since there are no filters as such, and actually playable servers without stupid mods and scripts are like 4 or 5 from 200 or so epoch servers.

Sorry, I was only really esponding to the loot from animals question. Have custom CfgPricing on my server and ground loot spawns. Checked with players and loot in general is lower now (Epoch loot that is)

[Grahame]

One more thing though. If it is true that the spawn model has changed so that loot spawns around, rather than in front of, a player then I would suggest that this could be sub-optimal. I too have had players report that it is tougher to find spawned loot containers (I have the standard lootBias setting of "30") since the change was made.

While some groups may work in a diamond pattern, as someone suggested, I don't think most do - and they certainly rarely do on my server because of the ever-present threat from the infected. Maybe a group of four will sweep each side of a street in pairs, with one in each pair keeping an eye out for infected or AI. They certainly don't think of revisiting a building that they have already searched. For lone players, and a lot of new players come on board by themselves and then find a group to join, I would suggest that it's a bit disheartening not to find loot.

I'd thought when one player said that they'd swept from one side of Pyrgos to the other and not found loot that they'd simply been unlucky or not visited that many buildings - it's problematic to tell them that they have to backtrack in order to find the loot they would have found in previous versions IMHO.

It hasn't been a big deal on my server yet since I combine standard loot with LootSpawner but people are now raising the lack of standard Epoch loot as an issue. Would be good if we could choose between the old and new spawning mechanisms. I'd choose the old method personally.

[KPABATOK]

20 hours ago, BetterDeadThanZed said:

I guess mine is one of those "4 or 5". I've hardly made any changes except increasing the loot chances and adding buildings that were missing. 

The default settings are not broken just because they aren't what someone likes. That's why you are able to configure settings. If I didn't like my server to start during the day time, I wouldn't say the default settings are broken just because by default the server starts during the day.

This falls more into the suggestions category.

 

to me it seems more like a downgrade of Epoch than a "useful feature" server admins can change at whim. It is no different than having something and then disabling it (because current "Default" loot chances hardly differ from disabled loot at all). Since the beginning of me playing Epoch loot spawning only improved patch by patch. It was really bad before, like I said, before 2.5.2 patch, but then improved and it showed a big promise that finally you don't have to wait 2 hours in town for loot to spawn, it was almost instant. Now it is worse. It is absolutely unreasonable change in game mechanics (or whatever it's called) and absolutely destroys any kind of interest to loot anymore. It was hard even for me, who spent thousands and thousands of hours in Epoch.

So I disagree with the comparison of day/night cycle as they are not essential to the mod itself. Looting in my opinion is one of the core feature. Make it harder and mod becomes broken and unplayable. It was same with DayZ I remember very well where at some Bugemia patch loot stopped spawning at all or spawned incorrectly (stuff spawned in huge amounts or none at all), and I believe it is not fully fixed even currently. And many players were pissed though hardcore DayZ fanboys ignored it and kept playing this broken forever alpha game. To me it was last straw because they tried to fix what was never broken and made it even worse.

Not saying Epoch is going into similar directions, just that this patch sucks and not possible to enjoy and test the mod anymore.

[KPABATOK]

4 hours ago, Grahame said:

g an eye out for infected or AI. They certainly don't think of revisiting a building that they have already searched. For lone players, and a lot of new players come on board by themselves and then find a group to join, I would suggest that it's a bit disheartening not to find loot.

I'd thought when one player said that they'd swept from one side of Pyrgos to the other and not found loot that they'd simply been unlucky or not visited that many buildings - it's problematic to tell them that they have to backtrack in order to find the loot they would have found in previous versions IMHO.

 

 

yeah backtracking sucks. But even before this broken patch loot spawned around me, just that IT SPAWNED, now it does not. Over half an hour - 1 building in whole big town. It is slower definitely. I used to backtrack, but now you not only have to backtrack, you have to backtrack 360 degrees. Where is fun in that? Going through town then going back and choosing another line then going again and again until you have been in every part of town for loot to spawn. I admit, I do not quite understand the current script but I do not care. Simply, playing alone is impossible.

[Grahame]

I agree. The previous loot system worked really well. Right now we have, unfortunately, taken a step backwards IMO

[KPABATOK]

ok now after more in depth "testing" as I call it, I see that this loot spawning is not as bad  as I thought in a first place (still I do not like it). However, looting now is definitely harder and consumes more time. The bright side, it seems that high grade rifles now spawn less and even looting military buildings will give you no loot this way (because of how script works, I suppose) which means less navids for everyone. It's good, in my opinion.

 

On the unrelated note, I do not remember the times I died so much in Epoch than yesterday. I kept dying and dying like every 20 minutes from all kinds of stupid stuff but usually sappers. They became good or I became bad player :D Or maybe I was just so unlucky. And I can't even find a damn hatchet to start cutting trees!!!! So carrying all my loot on myself like a moron since do not use traders to buy stuff (personal challenge to make game harder). Epoch becomes more and more hardcore for lonewolfs :)

[vbawol]

Loot spawning is working as I intended it, loot does now spawn in a wider arc (180 degrees) in front of the direction the player is looking. However I might change it back to average direction of travel but keep the wider loot spawn arc. Some tweaks could still be made to the lootbias and max number of loot objects per building to help make certain buildings more attractive to loot than others.

The current system is optimized much better that ever before. Previously there was no limit to how many loot objects you could spawn and they would only cleanup if you re-logged.  You now auto cleanup old loot objects as you spawn more than the max (default: 33 per player).  It should be harder game the loot system by getting same building to re-loot over and over due to having to check (default: 333) buildings before you can attempt a re-loot of the same building in the same session. 

Thanks for the feedback, I think once I tweak a few of the things I mentioned it will address some of your concerns.