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viper179

Blow me up Fred

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We could add configs for this as the logic for the dialog is in the mission file https://github.com/EpochModTeam/Epoch/blob/release/Sources/epoch_code/compile/functions/EPOCH_fnc_playerDeath.sqf#L49

UPDATE:
Ok as of b563 you can configure this and much more.
https://github.com/EpochModTeam/Epoch/releases

...
[Added] CfgEpochClient settings added for: Player killed revenge dialogs
playerDeathScreen = "TapOut"; // the dialog a player sees when they die or if playerDisableRevenge = 1
playerKilledScreen = "TapOut2"; // dialog that player sees when they are killed by another player.
playerDisableRevenge = 0; // 0 = invoke playerKilledScreen when killed by another player, 1 = disable

Changes:
https://github.com/EpochModTeam/Epoch/pull/573/files

:smile:

 

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21 hours ago, viper179 said:

Just because epoch is survival and when pvp is going down and you battle your enemy say for a hour and you finally get the kill you walk over to claim your loot and boom holy big bertha im dead.

True, also they cannot stay in that state for more than 10m so you take your chances looting the body too quickly.

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That's a good point @vbawol.  However, I think that a good portion of players immediate reaction is to check for loot on the body or take the gun.  While this is a bad habit a lot of us have that instinct.  My suggestion was a delayed explosion with an audible timer sort of like the bomb in CounterStrike (with a much shorter fuse).  Anyways- like the feature but of course there is always room for improvement.

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Few different ways to go about this:
* Full screen image that prevents visibility for dead.
* Button enabled after a N seconds/minutes with a countdown like ESC menu has.
* 50% chance to show button
* Detonate happens after N second delay, maybe with black particles coming out of body as an indicator for explosion.
* and as a joke - mini game where button has 90% chance to change its position when mouse enters it, leaving player chasing it to detonate. Or give them math problem to solve haha.

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I like the particle effect to warn that an explosion is imminent, or an effect that shows the victim 'may' still be in the body ? Adding certainty and / or turning every feature off is kind of pointless and no longer Epoch..

The ten minute timer will force the dead player to respawn so maybe reduce that timeout when the new Tapout menu is used ? That way the victim has to make a fairly quick decision..

Ultimately it was designed to combat the quick battles outside spawn points, aka spawn camping, and to introduce the player as antagonist option as a new / revisited feature.

The idea that every scenario should be an absolute and no danger exists for players is boring to play and awful to develop for. Please no more pandering to this attitude and let's start making it risky to play again.

Want to play Epoch ? Then be prepared to lose all your shit at a moments notice.

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I am definitely in support of the detonate feature.  I believe that adding tension to situations where you are having highs and lows is a way to engage players. For instance, when you are mostly playing alone: finding good loot then hearing a sapper or a drone can be a tense situation.  And when you are in PVP with a teammate:  communicating to locate and take down your opponent or waiting for a revive from a teammate is stressful.  The added stress of the unknown is the "rush" that people are after (at least it is for me when I'm playing for keeps).  I just hope for a solution that is fair- since we have the multigun with revive attachment I'm not sure limiting the timeout is a good idea.  I really like the idea of a particle effect on the dead player indicating an explosion- I'd like to hear other suggestions too. . . when you have a feature that no one else has there is also no precedent set for what is "fair".  I personally don't want to be coddled but I don't want the explosion to be instant either.  I'll think on it and look forward to hearing what others suggest.

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17 hours ago, orangesherbet said:

I am definitely in support of the detonate feature.  I believe that adding tension to situations where you are having highs and lows is a way to engage players. For instance, when you are mostly playing alone: finding good loot then hearing a sapper or a drone can be a tense situation.  And when you are in PVP with a teammate:  communicating to locate and take down your opponent or waiting for a revive from a teammate is stressful.  The added stress of the unknown is the "rush" that people are after (at least it is for me when I'm playing for keeps).  I just hope for a solution that is fair- since we have the multigun with revive attachment I'm not sure limiting the timeout is a good idea.  I really like the idea of a particle effect on the dead player indicating an explosion- I'd like to hear other suggestions too. . . when you have a feature that no one else has there is also no precedent set for what is "fair".  I personally don't want to be coddled but I don't want the explosion to be instant either.  I'll think on it and look forward to hearing what others suggest.

Here's a situation for you. Fresh spawn, you spawn in and start looting. Mid way through your business, you hear a vehicle approaching and come to a stop. You SPRINT to it, and almost get inside before they shoot you dead. Now that you've died, you click detonate and destroy their vehicle and anything they might've gained from stopping you. There's nothing tense about that, this will slowly be abused. You can literally jump from helicopters to your death to kamikaze stuff with your dead body lol

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2 hours ago, axeman said:

Ultimately it was designed to combat the quick battles outside spawn points, aka spawn camping, and to introduce the player as antagonist option as a new / revisited feature.

The idea that every scenario should be an absolute and no danger exists for players is boring to play and awful to develop for. Please no more pandering to this attitude and let's start making it risky to play again.

Want to play Epoch ? Then be prepared to lose all your shit at a moments notice.

 

Alright, made an account to discuss this as it's become a big obstacle in PvP for me. PvP in Epoch is driven mainly by the desire for loot. The ability to detonate takes away almost any possibility of loot however. While you claim you wish to avoid creating absolute scenarios I'm afraid that is exactly what you did by introducing the detonate mechanic. Most players will detonate themselves to deny loot leaving their body. This mechanic nearly guarantees PvP will never give loot. Additionally, this opens up the possibility of players using suicide attacks on bases or just in general, with players dying near vehicles and bases then detonating with the force of a satchel charge. It's a trolling mechanic I'm afraid. This is the equivalent of throwing a fit because you lost and as you said "Want to play Epoch? Then be prepared to lose all your shit at a moments notice." 

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3 hours ago, Raelor said:

Here's a situation for you. Fresh spawn, you spawn in and start looting. Mid way through your business, you hear a vehicle approaching and come to a stop. You SPRINT to it, and almost get inside before they shoot you dead. Now that you've died, you click detonate and destroy their vehicle and anything they might've gained from stopping you. There's nothing tense about that, this will slowly be abused. You can literally jump from helicopters to your death to kamikaze stuff with your dead body lol

You can't kamikaze as you need to die from pvp, i died several times to antagonists and arma stairs glitches and got no option to explode or morph, it was only being killed specifically in pvp combat that these options were triggered.

As to this becoming a deterrent to pvp, allelujah! There has long been need for such  a deterrent.  There are plenty of circumstances where pvp is going to be only option, (rather than mindless shooting on sight), and the respawn options adds another level of decision making about how someone is going to play.

I do not buy into the argument that the only reason for pvp is to loot, the only reason for pvp is to kill as many as can be found and then brag about how many at whatever distance and whether armour piercing rounds were used.

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1 hour ago, TheStainlessSteelRat said:

You can't kamikaze as you need to die from pvp, i died several times to antagonists and arma stairs glitches and got no option to explode or morph, it was only being killed specifically in pvp combat that these options were triggered.

As to this becoming a deterrent to pvp, allelujah! There has long been need for such  a deterrent.  There are plenty of circumstances where pvp is going to be only option, (rather than mindless shooting on sight), and the respawn options adds another level of decision making about how someone is going to play.

I do not buy into the argument that the only reason for pvp is to loot, the only reason for pvp is to kill as many as can be found and then brag about how many at whatever distance and whether armour piercing rounds were used.

So you're saying, that if I were to run up to your car and hop in, you wouldn't stop me? The only way to stop me is to shoot me, and you wouldn't? I would take a gun from the car (if there was one) and get ready to kill you. IF you did decide to stop me, I can turn into a suicide bomber, and troll you regardless. This game isn't about what YOU would do, but what people COULD do. The internet has a way of turning us into animals, don't count on good nature when I am a literally walking bomb.

Edit: I would just like to say I am so glad an option was added to turn it off was added. Thank you.

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Lock your car ?

It does have to be a PvP kill to trigger the extra options.

So for gaining loot from a PvP I was already looking at spreading the victims belongings around the destination site and randomly deleting some items. I had noticed that weapons and held items often dropped on the ground anyway.

Would that solve PvP loot issue ?

The problem with switching everything off is: Yay a new feature being tried out in this mod -> oh, it doesn't do exactly what I want right now and players are crying because <insert reason why player doesn't like change> -> switch it off as the most vocal won't stop going on about it -> no need to offer positive feedback, we're not using it anyway -> feature doesn't get updated in ways you might want -> players are bored and want more features -> players move to Minecraft -> Devs add more hats and tins of food, dies of boredom.

 

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People are always afraid of new things.

My opinion: I would also like to have this option randomized as hell and with a lock like raymix suggested: Math calc. Would love it. But thats just my opinion.

Offtopic: Could you randomize the sapper explosion damage? I mean, i see a bloated, get my shoes in my hands and run as fast as i can. Would like if i dont know how much damage it causes.

And don't go into rage mode, does'nt help anyone. ;)

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Raelor said:

Here's a situation for you. Fresh spawn, you spawn in and start looting. Mid way through your business, you hear a vehicle approaching and come to a stop. You SPRINT to it, and almost get inside before they shoot you dead. Now that you've died, you click detonate and destroy their vehicle and anything they might've gained from stopping you. There's nothing tense about that, this will slowly be abused. You can literally jump from helicopters to your death to kamikaze stuff with your dead body lol

You always have to think of worst case scenario, indeed because it will happen!  The way we are testing now (per AWOL) is to have a random timer - between 5 and 30 seconds for the detonation to occur and the option to detonate won't even be possible before time alive >= 15 minutes.  I like this and I can't think of a better solution at the moment.

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11 hours ago, He-Man said:

What about only getting the new explode menu if player alive time is longer than xx minutes? So not every bambi can run to my vehicles and only wait to geht killed to blow them up.

Are we talking parking outside trader cities and multiple Bambie trying your vehicle ?

It would have to be a short time so people can run away and it could be gamed .

What about a vehicle safe zone / parking bay ?

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57 minutes ago, orangesherbet said:

You always have to think of worst case scenario, indeed because it will happen!  The way we are testing now (per AWOL) is to have a random timer - between 5 and 30 seconds for the detonation to occur and the option to detonate won't even be possible before time alive >= 15 minutes.  I like this and I can't think of a better solution at the moment.

So how does a Bambie retaliate from being constantly spawn camped under that scenario ?

The motivation for making this after being endlessly shot on MGT..

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5 minutes ago, axeman said:

So how does a Bambie retaliate from being constantly spawn camped under that scenario ?

The motivation for making this after being endlessly shot on MGT..

For us, we prevent this by teleporting to findsafepos.

So Spawn camping is not possible...

 

And I was not talking about blowing up inside Safe Zones (we have).

I am talking about all scenarios, other servers could have.

 

I like the new blow off menu and now it is perfect for me!

Every Admin can adjust it for his Server

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1 hour ago, axeman said:

So how does a Bambie retaliate from being constantly spawn camped under that scenario ?

The motivation for making this after being endlessly shot on MGT..

Why spawn with a suicide vest though? That doesn't help bambi's from getting shot at all. It certainly gives them an option for revenge if somebody is dumb enough to loot a bambi. Wouldn't it be better to just give the bambi a better selection of spawn options or start with a weapon to defend himself? Otherwise you just have a bunch of bambi terrorists running around terrorizing players.

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Well, if you are intent on keeping this addition then put a timer on how long someone has the feature available. You can only use the detonate feature thirty minutes after spawning.  30 minutes is more than enough on most servers to get geared enough to defend themselves. Even with this in mind though, the problems I listed before with the feature remain. As you say, Surviving the new world is not supposed to be fair yet it seems like you are intent on making things fair for new spawns who by definition MUST be at a disadvantage. In my opinion, it is not a good feature as it stands. It creates absolute scenarios you are trying to avoid and sucks the life out of PvP.  Some features you add are good, others not so. Don't take it so personally when one doesn't work as intended. I'm all for experimenting with new features and such, but the long term consequences need to be considered before implementation on a mass scale. The timer might fix it. Bambies in my opinion simply shouldn't be able to retaliate because they haven't put the time to be on equal footing. Want to avoid spawn camping? Add more spawns, diversify the areas. People won't be camping ALL the spawn zones. If so, Admins may need to step in because there's a point where it becomes griefing. Not a problem devs can address. Some things have to fall to admins to correct for. I think it's less of a problem than people make it out to be. 

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