A concern about antagonists

[Tobias Solem]

Man, I have to be frank about something in A3E, and that's the antagonists. I understand that they are far, far from finished, but I'd really like a discussion, or at least more information about what your (the devs) vision are with the antagonists. I'm a bit worried about them becoming even more "weird" or out of place. A wandering shambles of a mountain for example just sounds like even more out of place than the sore throat reapers or the head-popping party trick sappers. To me none of these cause fear, stress or immersion. 

 

I think the antagonists need to pose a bigger threat overall. DayZ did it with "lots and lots and lots of zombies", zombies worked because everyone accepts that they are retarded (writing AI is hard), almost every other type of AI opponent have failed in ARMA, and yes; I am talking about AI controlled soldiers as well, which simply are too predictable. 

 

Something probably is in plans for all of this, but I would like to have some concerns addressed:

 

1. What is your vision with antagonists overall? For example, are they going to be a major component of Epoch (like zombies are to DayZ) or is it going to be more of a sideshow deal that occurs from time to time (like the Stalker-esque bloodsucker in Namalsk).

 

2. How do the antagonists fit in with the backstory? And how do they behave/react/act in the world in relation to that (what are their purpose, or their creators purpose with them, and how do they attempt to accomplish those goals and through which actions?)

 

3. How do you intend to make the encounters with AI more engaging, challenging and more fitting in the context of the game? 

 

 

 

[semipr0]

Given the environments we're in, feral animals are your best bet. But they need to be visibly feral and dangerous current situation with dogs is really bugging me because they look and literally act like house pets.

 

The Sapper is a good concept but there aren't enough of them on occurance for them to become a concern. Its more just kind of an "OMG look at that retarded zombie...why did it run 40 meters away from me and blow up?" perhaps if 10 or so of them spawned in your general locale on event..that might make things tricky, also if the explosions were heavy enough to wreck buildings, also a better challenge...also it would be nice if they eventually figured out how to walk into buildings.

 

Cultists...eh...not so much, I don't think it fits the mood...but if its what the team wants I guess we'll see where it goes, currently I don't find them at all disturbing or challenging.

 

Drone with the bandit squad is a nice event, though I really don't appreciate bandits that can headshot me with a PDW from > 300m away...its ridiculous. I'd prefer smarter AI but its Arma so it is what it is.

 

Perhaps Super Sappers....take the old Super Mutant concept from Fallout and, make a beefed up version of the Sapper that can tank a lot of damage and the explosion wrecks stuff.

 

Overall I'd like to see more raider type antagonists, full on Stalker level bad guys that have camps and emplacements in various parts of the map and do some basic wandering, something that breaks up the oddity of these semi-dark fiction antagonists we have so far.

 

Also if the Epoch team hasn't looked at ArmAgeddon...they should, the natural hazards alone in that mod are something to take a certain level of inspiration from because what I really like about it is that sure, there are enemy soldiers out there, but theres also some really nasty things you have no control over going on as well. Its a rough world out there, the world itself should be an antagonist.

[matrixmark]

Yep currently all of the antagonists are too easy.

 

Sappers are virtually pointless unless you get on that catches you off guard. The Drones are good but there isn't enough of them. 2 hours looting yesterday with a 6man team and we didn't get a single drone come over and only one sapper.

 

Cultists are funny dudes lol just again not enough of them around.

 

Other than that I like it :D just need more of them all.

[Osiris72]

I really don't get the cultists and the huge rock golem thing in the works.....like I said in another thread, I feel like we need a fire mage with a +10 fire staff tagging along with us.

 

It would fit better to have HUMAN AI with melee weapons (chainsaw, sledge, hatchet) running around, along with wolves, mountain lions, etc running around outside of towns.

[orangesherbet]

There is a lot of thought that goes into the antagonists and they are far from finished, currently the Sapper has a rework of the "AI brain" quoting Axeman from a recent conversation and the cultist attack is broken in the current build- we are in Alpha and understand that Epoch is a small team of developers, Sequisha is going to be very busy but trust that he and the team will come up with something to provide challenge for the player and scare the shit out of you. If I'm allowed to I may add some of the lore about the antagonists into the wiki but if you talk w/ Sequisha on his stream he's been pretty open about the meaning behind each of the antagonists.  I'm sure there will be some live testing of the reworked Sapper / Cultist / Drone AI before the next update as well.

[Brez]

3 hours and I saw one sapper.  No cloaks and a few of those drones that follow you now.

 

Seems like the antagonists have been backed off from spawning now.

 

 

Regardless.. 4 months of work and it's a good start.. I'd rather have them revamp or add to the building system than put a priority on antagonists.

[Radec59437]

I like the odd approach they're taking; it's like some Fallout mixed with The Zone from STALKER (I'd totally dig more Bloodsucker-style enemies).

 

They just need to coagulate their lore a bit more and perhaps write a more convincing back-story for these antagonists, in my opinion.

[Somename]

 

Man, I have to be frank about something in A3E, and that's the antagonists. I understand that they are far, far from finished, but I'd really like a discussion, or at least more information about what your (the devs) vision are with the antagonists. I'm a bit worried about them becoming even more "weird" or out of place. A wandering shambles of a mountain for example just sounds like even more out of place than the sore throat reapers or the head-popping party trick sappers. To me none of these cause fear, stress or immersion. 

 

I think the antagonists need to pose a bigger threat overall. DayZ did it with "lots and lots and lots of zombies", zombies worked because everyone accepts that they are retarded (writing AI is hard), almost every other type of AI opponent have failed in ARMA, and yes; I am talking about AI controlled soldiers as well, which simply are too predictable. 

 

Something probably is in plans for all of this, but I would like to have some concerns addressed:

 

1. What is your vision with antagonists overall? For example, are they going to be a major component of Epoch (like zombies are to DayZ) or is it going to be more of a sideshow deal that occurs from time to time (like the Stalker-esque bloodsucker in Namalsk).

 

2. How do the antagonists fit in with the backstory? And how do they behave/react/act in the world in relation to that (what are their purpose, or their creators purpose with them, and how do they attempt to accomplish those goals and through which actions?)

 

3. How do you intend to make the encounters with AI more engaging, challenging and more fitting in the context of the game? 

 

Constructive criticism for you: you should only use "social talk" ("ey" "man" etc) when you are TALKING to someone, not in writing. It makes you look mentally challenged and underage.

[MassAsster]

Constructive criticism for you: you should only use "social talk" ("ey" "man" etc) when you are TALKING to someone, not in writing. It makes you look mentally challenged and underage.

 

 

Constructive criticism for you: You should keep your constructive criticism to yourself, it makes you look like a smug jackass.

 

un·der·age

 

adjective

 

1. (of a person) too young to engage legally in a particular activity, especially drinking alcohol or having sex.

   • (of an activity) engaged in by people who are underage.

     "underage drinking"

[JayOnSpeed]

Well i cant fall in love with  the cultists or the sappers,. I'd rather have a more realistic approach of a post apocalyptic world. What i'd like to see in epoche is animal life going wild, rebels, bandits, outcasts with a happy trigger in a sort of madmax environment ( Yes i'm that old) . They would be my vision for the perfect epoch. Of course i'll play it either way , epoch is the best thing invented since sliced bread and the dev team has all my support either way :)

[Tobias Solem]

Constructive criticism for you: you should only use "social talk" ("ey" "man" etc) when you are TALKING to someone, not in writing. It makes you look mentally challenged and underage.

 

Ey man, yo, constructive criticism for you dude, like, when you don't have anything to say in regards to the topic at hand, keep it to yourself, ey ey man.