Chief Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I can't offer an argument in relation to the technical problems with indestructible bases, but I can with the playing aspects. And it is of my opinion that destructible bases will result in the loss of players. All that being said, I'm only advocating having indestructible materials alongside destructible materials. This worked well on mgt A2 Epoch, where base takeovers were commonplace, and the aggrieved simply had to learn how to make a secure base if they didn't want to suffer losing their home again. Not everyone had the patience or knowledge to make a full indestructible cinder base. Bases built on the side of existing, destructible buildings were also commonplace, which lead to many being taken over by having the building they'd built onto, blown up. So I'd say that indestructible materials doesn't mean all bases will be Inpenetrable. I do hope your solutions are ground breaking and remove the constant destruction of bases. Before the wannabe moderators jump in to point out the game isn't finished, I already know. But as it is now, the mod is losing players aplenty. Just look at the server lists. This is just, wow. Indestructible bases? Really? Dumbest idea ever. Talk about easy mode. Its part of the game to go out and have to find the equipment (satchels) to open up a base and see what is inside. If people just had indestructible bases then it just turns into a bank. There is no sense of loss. For all the people that want more realism ( and Im not saying this is yall) you want to add something so unrealistic that is borders on stupidity. This thread has really blown my mind about how players always want things that they think will help but will just add more problems. Im glad the dev team isnt even looking into this as a possibility. I do understand that people dupe and that sucks ( I am not, nor have ever been one and I search for my satchels one at a time and use them shortly after finding) but that is no reason to take a large part of the game out to make it easy. Bases are meant to be a home but also a nut that can be cracked to find the sweet meat (that is loot) inside. /rant and opinion As a side note I would like to say to you skydogs that I have read quite a few of your posts and Im not a fan. I dont like the direction you bring to things but they are your opinions and you are free to have them. My suggestion, though, is to understand that just because you feel a certain way does not mean the larger majority feel the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Sequisha: Your work and your modifikation is good, your Team works great. so dont start to write bullshit here. your mod wouldn't be the first and at least not the last who dies cause the Dev Team are jackasses... ok? i saw a lot DEV's Teams broken or the Mod dieying in case of this.. would be realy sad :( Some of your points I disagree with but Ill bypass that atm (not duping of course). But this ^ you need to stop. This is their mod and this is their forums they can do whatever they like. Honestly Ive read his posts and he replies to people that are (to put it softly) mentally touched. They want this game to be easy mode or think that just because something bad happens to them that the mod is trash and his posts are legit. If they put their truck or base in a less obvious position people wouldnt find it. Bases are meant to be raided, it happens. No reason to cry about it on here. You find a new spot and hunt for more resources to make a new jammer/ walls. Its the nature of the game and hes just pushing people in the direction that they need to go. Basically telling them to not be so butthurt and play the game for what it is. And trust me this mod wont die. Its fun as heck and Ill play it for as long as its available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 This is just, wow. Indestructible bases? Really? Dumbest idea ever. Talk about easy mode. Its part of the game to go out and have to find the equipment (satchels) to open up a base and see what is inside. If people just had indestructible bases then it just turns into a bank. There is no sense of loss. For all the people that want more realism ( and Im not saying this is yall) you want to add something so unrealistic that is borders on stupidity. This thread has really blown my mind about how players always want things that they think will help but will just add more problems. Im glad the dev team isnt even looking into this as a possibility. I do understand that people dupe and that sucks ( I am not, nor have ever been one and I search for my satchels one at a time and use them shortly after finding) but that is no reason to take a large part of the game out to make it easy. Bases are meant to be a home but also a nut that can be cracked to find the sweet meat (that is loot) inside. /rant and opinion As a side note I would like to say to you skydogs that I have read quite a few of your posts and Im not a fan. I dont like the direction you bring to things but they are your opinions and you are free to have them. My suggestion, though, is to understand that just because you feel a certain way does not mean the larger majority feel the same way. I'm honoured you have read quite a few of my posts, thank you. However, I am very upset that you're not a fan of mine. Regarding the indestructible base debate, may I suggest we allow time to prove which model is more popular? Have a merry Christmas and a bloody brilliant New Year, Chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 This is their mod and this is their forums they can do whatever they like. . They want this game to be easy mode or think that just because something bad happens to them that the mod is trash and his posts are legit. If they put their truck or base in a less obvious position people wouldnt find it. Bases are meant to be raided, it happens. No reason to cry about it on here. You find a new spot and hunt for more resources to make a new jammer/ walls. Its the nature of the game and hes just pushing people in the direction that they need to go. Basically telling them to not be so butthurt and play the game for what it is. And trust me this mod wont die. Its fun as heck and Ill play it for as long as its available. In terms of numbers 'currently' playing, the mod is close to death, considering how many people have tried it. Yes I know it's in Alpha, and yes players will come back when they get wind of the new, impending changes, but keeping them is a taller task. As you already know, I firmly believe that indestructible building parts will go a long way in keeping players playing, and so does one of the owners of one of the most popular Epoch communities. I understand the counter to my belief, as I do with regards to God Zone debate, but purely on an attracting and keeping players basis, I feel both are a must. I don't care if some mechanics aren't realistic, as long as they serve the majority then that's all that matters, in my opinion. I'm not adverse to a bit of hardcore play, so I think your type of server will exist, but I really do feel that after a few communities install the mods in question, your type of servers will be like the no 3rd person servers......underpopulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyz Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 In terms of numbers 'currently' playing, the mod is close to death, considering how many people have tried it. Yes I know it's in Alpha, and yes players will come back when they get wind of the new, impending changes, but keeping them is a taller task. As you already know, I firmly believe that indestructible building parts will go a long way in keeping players playing, and so does one of the owners of one of the most popular Epoch communities. I understand the counter to my belief, as I do with regards to God Zone debate, but purely on an attracting and keeping players basis, I feel both are a must. I don't care if some mechanics aren't realistic, as long as they serve the majority then that's all that matters, in my opinion. I'm not adverse to a bit of hardcore play, so I think your type of server will exist, but I really do feel that after a few communities install the mods in question, your type of servers will be like the no 3rd person servers......underpopulated. Uhh. There was popular servers with destroyable bases already on Arma 2 epoch and indestructible bases worked better on Arma2 epoch since you could still raid a base through breaking the combo locks. Now it will be impossible for anyone to raid a base anymore. Ofc. if you want your servers to remove this massive feature from the game, go ahead. I luckily can choose where I play and it wont be on servers where base raiding is impossible. And if someone says that "just shoot them when they open the door", you must be really new to the game since no-one designs a base so that 1 door gives you access to their base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Xyz, isn't it great that there will be choice? We have different visions on what will make this game good, and hopefully we'll both be able to play on a server to our likings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFranek Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Sounds like someone should be playing minecraft and not a army sim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Sounds like someone should be playing minecraft and not a army sim Tell me about it! All these players wanting destructible bases so they can spend most of their time in game building instead of fighting. I'm so glad you're on my side. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cring0 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Tell me about it! All these players wanting destructible bases so they can spend most of their time in game building instead of fighting. I'm so glad you're on my side. Thanks. lol well played sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disabled Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Exactly, we have a core of about 15 players who have been on the server since April 2013 and it's about getting the balance right. Blowing shit up is fun, but not if you've spent weeks gathering and building and come back to find everything ruined. 15? you mad? id say more. not the point tho, blowing up is amazing BUT make the bloody satchel and explosive charges as rare as the lockbox and THEN you will have balance. Pasi, devil1975 and Nic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeCreeds Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 You also have to remember that there are no *proper* loot tables yet you are just as likely to find an explosive satchel under a mattress in a house as you are to find one in a Barracks currently, and then combine this with the very easy duping methods (which they said will be addressed) you have a very cheap and effective way of breaking into a base. But ONCE *proper* loot tables are a thing and weapons and explosives are spawning in there correct place this is going to become a very rare occurrence as I am pretty sure they will become a very rare item same as they use to be in the original mod. Even better is the fact you cannot just waltz up to a trader and buy 10 of them. People will be gathering them up for weeks on end maybe even months to break into bases (unless they are duped but they can be caught) , and then the only thing to stop them will be the design of your base which is also a BIG factor. Xyz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 It's set in the future where we have the miraculagun that resurrects people and repairs vehicles, but they ain't figured out how to mix super reinforced concrete. How about introducing a new reinforced paint made from diamond dust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFDP Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 How about, if you dont want someone to destroy your base, go play on a PVE server and stay off the PvP servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cring0 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 You also have to remember that there are no *proper* loot tables yet you are just as likely to find an explosive satchel under a mattress in a house as you are to find one in a Barracks currently, and then combine this with the very easy duping methods (which they said will be addressed) you have a very cheap and effective way of breaking into a base. But ONCE *proper* loot tables are a thing and weapons and explosives are spawning in there correct place this is going to become a very rare occurrence as I am pretty sure they will become a very rare item same as they use to be in the original mod. Even better is the fact you cannot just waltz up to a trader and buy 10 of them. People will be gathering them up for weeks on end maybe even months to break into bases (unless they are duped but they can be caught) , and then the only thing to stop them will be the design of your base which is also a BIG factor. Then all they'll be doing is pulling vehicles up and exploding them, right? Like I said, you might be able to build in a way to avoid the vehicles exploding, but then that really limits what you can build and where you're building it. I really don't want indestructible buildings either, but if someone can just find a hatchback or quad and pull it up to your wall and gain access(which they probably could do anyways by pulling close enough and getting out, but I haven't seen that happen yet), that would be pretty lame. I'm thinking that if salvage metal was a bit more abundant(currently there are just electronics components out the wazzoo), maybe it would be a bit easier to build appropriate layers of walls that you would need to combat this... I got it! A wall shield! More electronics components, salvage metal and wood and upgrade regular wall to a shielded wall that shows some gadget on the outside and simply bumps up armor rating(or whatever you would call it)! =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devil1975 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 make the bloody satchel and explosive charges as rare as the lockbox and THEN you will have balance. That the point and the best idea i read here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Dont worry HowHigh2, currently the explosives are much more common than they are supposed to be. This is mainly caused by bugs that allow duping of gear. Just have a break and come back when the mod is more finished. Duping never got fixed in Arma 2. What makes you think they will fix it in Arma 3? Also what about hackers spawning stuff in, they had to change the whole engine in DayZ standalone to fix that, and still havent fixed it completely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drsubo Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I think that's the beauty of server files being public. People can make server how they want. If you don't like loosing your base then make server with indestrutable bases or take explosives out of loot table and those guys can play on there. There's so many playing styles and ways to script and customize server. That's what I think made a2 epoch so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasdero Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I think that's the beauty of server files being public. People can make server how they want. If you don't like loosing your base then make server with indestrutable bases or take explosives out of loot table and those guys can play on there. There's so many playing styles and ways to script and customize server. That's what I think made a2 epoch so great. Right, but we (or I) talking about A3 Epoch vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choppra Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Duping never got fixed in Arma 2. What makes you think they will fix it in Arma 3? Also what about hackers spawning stuff in, they had to change the whole engine in DayZ standalone to fix that, and still havent fixed it completely? Third party scripts were able to curb it. I haven't come across it since installed but then again they can just buy a hack and spawn stuff in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Third party scripts were able to curb it. Not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGT Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Not really. Yes, some prevention for the main ones and logs for the not so main ones means most are caught. choppra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yes, some prevention for the main ones and logs for the not so main ones means most are caught. I know for a fact that some people have been duping for months on your Arma 2 Epoch server and you guys still havent caught them. Obviously if someone dupes 200 briefcases and flies in blackhawks whole the time he will get caught but if you do it smart and use specific methods you will most likely never get detected. Even if you can catch the mass duper, if no admins are online he can destroy half of the bases before he gets banned. I remember how you guys didnt want to bother helping people on your server after your basemaintaining system fucked up. Half of the bases on the server got messed up and you ignored the people. Not to mention that duping is nothing compared to what a scripter can do to destructible bases. On our A2DZE servers we have indestructible cinder and metal floors, everything else can be destroyed, so if you put the effort in to make a base from cinder and metal you will be rewarded with a bit more protection. That indestructibility doesn't stop base takeovers, but removes the easy "blow it up" method to gain entry. You have to be clever like camp it from a distance until someone is opening a door, or drop in from a heli and camp it out until the owners return. You dont make any sense. How can you take over a base If the guy has a secure plot pole room? What if he has a 2 door system in his base, even if he opens 1 door you cant get in? Why would anyone spend a week building something when some asshats can get on for an hour and completely destroy your base for the hell of it while you're not online? This would be easy to fix by making the explosives extremely rare, but like i said duping and hacking makes this impossible, maybe in DayZ SA epoch we will be able to have this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js2k6 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 AgentRev left a comment in description.ext in his wasteland files, Something I really appreciate. And it can apply here as a good analogy. forceRotorLibSimulation = 0; // if you set this to 1, you deny freedom of choice to the players, which is the very principle this mission is built upon source: https://github.com/A3Wasteland/ArmA3_Wasteland.Altis/blob/Development_main/description.ext While personally, I fly with advanced flight model. But I understand that not everyone likes it that way. So I leave that setting at zero in my wasteland servers. As an admin/server owner it's not about what I want. It's about what the players want. A mission built upon freedom of choice. Not everyone wants to play the game the same way. People invest their free time into things they enjoy. So they spend hours doing it. gathering supplies, crafting, building. The grind can actually be quite relaxing and rewarding. You talk of a revolving door, The biggest cause I've seen for people leaving a server (in my servers, and in others when i was just a player like everyone else) is a loss of a base. Whether it's by means of takeover, destroying walls and doors etc. The player sees it like this, "I spent all this time doing that, hours of my free time that i could have spent doing anything else... And I didn't log in last night because I have to sleep occasionally Now it's all gone within seconds" The player is then confronted with a choice... start again from scratch and risk having that happen again -or- start again from scratch in a different server that will ensure this won't happen again. Now without the offering of an indestructible bases type system. The player may feel inclined to just say "fuck it, i'll go play wasteland/hide the sausage/king of the hill/cs:go/five knuckle shuffle instead... " The important thing to remember here, is that a game/mod is nothing without it's players. Zupa, kiwigreen and Splin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 The player is then confronted with a choice... start again from scratch and risk having that happen again -or- start again from scratch in a different server that will ensure this won't happen again. Now without the offering of an indestructible bases type system. The player may feel inclined to just say "fuck it, i'll go play wasteland/hide the sausage/king of the hill/cs:go/five knuckle shuffle instead... " The important thing to remember here, is that a game/mod is nothing without it's players. Theres another choice, gather the supplies and take over your old base, if they took all your stuff go raid their base and take it back. With indestructable bases after you build a base you are basically done with the game and only thing left to do is to camp on top of the base or just say fuck it and go play wasteland instead. Baseraiding and base takeovers can be a big fun part of the game if done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGT Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I know for a fact that some people have been duping for months on your Arma 2 Epoch server and you guys still havent caught them. Got some names or do you support cheaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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