Cactus Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Got some names or do you support cheaters? No, but I dont care if they cheat on a server with cheating admins that regularly abuse their powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGT Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 No, but I dont care if they cheat on a server with cheating admins that regularly abuse their powers. Oh, you got banned lol Disabled 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Oh, you got banned lol Thank you for banning me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well said Js2k6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 This thread has so many great ideas but far too much bullshit, let's be civil people and keep things on topic and mature :) raymix and Nasdero 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choppra Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 AgentRev left a comment in description.ext in his wasteland files, Something I really appreciate. And it can apply here as a good analogy. source: https://github.com/A3Wasteland/ArmA3_Wasteland.Altis/blob/Development_main/description.ext While personally, I fly with advanced flight model. But I understand that not everyone likes it that way. So I leave that setting at zero in my wasteland servers. As an admin/server owner it's not about what I want. It's about what the players want. A mission built upon freedom of choice. Not everyone wants to play the game the same way. People invest their free time into things they enjoy. So they spend hours doing it. gathering supplies, crafting, building. The grind can actually be quite relaxing and rewarding. You talk of a revolving door, The biggest cause I've seen for people leaving a server (in my servers, and in others when i was just a player like everyone else) is a loss of a base. Whether it's by means of takeover, destroying walls and doors etc. The player sees it like this, "I spent all this time doing that, hours of my free time that i could have spent doing anything else... And I didn't log in last night because I have to sleep occasionally Now it's all gone within seconds" The player is then confronted with a choice... start again from scratch and risk having that happen again -or- start again from scratch in a different server that will ensure this won't happen again. Now without the offering of an indestructible bases type system. The player may feel inclined to just say "fuck it, i'll go play wasteland/hide the sausage/king of the hill/cs:go/five knuckle shuffle instead... " The important thing to remember here, is that a game/mod is nothing without it's players. Great post! My suggestion to the devs would be to allow for hosts to pick which parts will be indestructible. Personally, I would allow just doors and also lower the power of the C4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Great post! My suggestion to the devs would be to allow for hosts to pick which parts will be indestructible. Personally, I would allow just doors and also lower the power of the C4. Not a solution, you can make a wall at the door and fuck up the whole base. Indestructible stuff is never a solution and should only be used as last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummuluis Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 It's easy to see where SkyDogs and others are coming from, when it comes to the reasoning behind wanting indestructible buildings. Everyone lives a different life, and the amount of time we're able to invest into gaming varies. If a person plays say for 4 hours a day and eventually builds a base, there's a 20 hour window each day that the base is vulnerable with no chance for the person to react. This can be countered by grouping up with others that play longer / different time zones, but there's still going to be large time gaps, days people are gone, etc. Are indestructible buildings and materials the answer? No, but there should really be a focus on balance between how much time it takes to build a base and maintaining it, verse the amount of effort needed to destroy or raid a base. Of course it's still in alpha, so things are bound to be adjusted/change/improve and when server files are released this will open up more choices for players. Richie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 It's plain to see that there are two camps regarding this debate. For me, the solution is simple.....Have servers with indestructible materials, and servers without them. Many moons ago I urged the devs to include a toggle system for game settings, allowing server owners to choose which settings to toggle on or off. The strength of the building materials could be one of them. js2k6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris72 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm not sure that this is possible in Arma scripting, but what if base materials are indestructible only when members of the group that owns the jammer are not in game. As soon as one person from that group logs in, the materials then become destructible and stay that way for a time period after they log out (30 min maybe). Bases without jammers are always destructible Now I can see that someone would be pissed that they wasted a satchel on a base in a non-destructible state, maybe there is a good way of letting someone know it's in a destructible state. (maybe prevent a satchel charge from deploying at all in a radius around the base if it is not destructible) To me, it would be much more fun to invade and maybe destroy a base when there is a fight involved.....blowing bases up when no one who owns it is lame imho. I maybe missing an possible exploitation method here, but I'd hate for satchels to be rendered useless or removed as there are so many other fun as hell ways to use them in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choppra Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Not a solution, you can make a wall at the door and fuck up the whole base. Indestructible stuff is never a solution and should only be used as last resort. This makes no sense. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Now I can see that someone would be pissed that they wasted a satchel on a base in a non-destructible state, maybe there is a good way of letting someone know it's in a destructible state. (maybe prevent a satchel charge from deploying at all in a radius around the base if it is not destructible) My paint idea would work. If on the loot table there was hardened paint that gave the building materials strength; from there the devs could tune it so, for instance, the paint decayed rapidly, meaning base owners would need to keep searching for this paint in order to keep bases indestructible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 My paint idea would work. If on the loot table there was hardened paint that gave the building materials strength; from there the devs could tune it so, for instance, the paint decayed rapidly, meaning base owners would need to keep searching for this paint in order to keep bases indestructible. I kind of like this idea, so that not everything is indestructible and maybe people can only really afford to make their frequency jammer room indestructible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryk3r Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I mostly read the forums here to keep up with the development and other news and not so much to post, but I thought I would post and share what I consider to be Epoch. Joy and Pain. DayZ and Epoch mods have always been a "game of losses". Anyone who has played knows that no one ever keeps anything forever, such as anything ever looted or anything purchased through donations. What is most exciting about the game is the gaining things and losing things to include life, loot, and anything ever build with such loot. All of these evoke emotion, heighten our senses, and draw us closer to point of having that "perfect world" simply because we are free to do what we want in a chaotic environment. That's what is so great about it. Anyone who has ever tried to play golf knows that this type of game, is only a game, but also a self-inflicted cruelty by the single thought that domination of it is completely unattainable. Games are supposed to be hard. People are more likely to quit them when it's too easy versus too hard. Indestructible base requests are merely those wanting a perfect, impenetrable safe haven in a world similar to post-apocalypse. Oh wait...what is the game's setting, again? cyncrwler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theirongiant Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 What about making everything indestructible except doors. Your jammer can make 1 door of your choosing indestructible. That gets round airlocks and means that the only way to destroy / fully raid a base is ambushing the owners when they're online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimBlock Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 The mod is the Epoch Devs vision which may or may not be tinted by community feedback. If the devs have said indestructable bases do not fit with that vision then it wont go in to the A3 Epoch mod. There really is no point on trying to convince them to change their mind. Wait until it comes out and then either mod it yourself or get one of the modders here to do it. The dev team have said there is a decent modding system planned so lets see how it turns out and if it is not as good as expected then there are a number of modders here who will most likely take up the challenge to do something to fix that. Personally I am not a fan of indestructable bases but do believe there has to be some sort of protection whilst players are off the server. A number of decent options have been suggested but I kind of like the following solutions best; - A general upgrade option to allow players to armour the walls (increase wall hitpoints and different model). - Booby traps / vehicle & personnel landmines (craftable). - Alarms - Self destruct Just think of the possibilities.... Create a nice little choke point raiders have to go through to get to the main base walls. They drive through it in a vehicle they plan to explode against the walls and boom... vehicle mine + vehicle = goodbye raider. To counter, have some mine sweeping gear (vulnerable whilst sweeping). To counter that have claymore boobytraps covering the minefield with tripwires (for when not at the base to stop minesweeping). I also think that destroyed bases should leave a portion of the required crafting items behind that are 'salvaged' from the rubble... cring0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js2k6 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 The problem herein lies as such. It comes down to excessive griefing. Any admin worth his salt has seen first hand the sheer volume of players who play only to cause grief. They're not wanting to break your door down to get at your valuables. They could not give two shits about your loot. They want to upset people. The reason why dayz epoch was arguably more successful than any other of the DayZ clones came down to the building and the trading systems. None of the other mods could come close to this. Primarily it is the building that sets the mod apart from the others. At some point CPC decided to release a fantastic mod that allowed admins to predetermine which items would receive immunity, and which wouldn't At a later point DZE_GodModeBase = true; could be added to init.sqf to protect buildables after a restart. This value can easily be set to false, So the desire for indestructible bases isn't about trying to create an ideal world. It's a protective measure which is taken against a very toxic (and very prevalent) part of the 'community' Some players and admins want to have god mode bases, others do not. Let the choice be made. Each type of server attracts a different subsection of the playerbase. Yes, Games should be hard, I grew up in the 80s playing games like TMNT and Contra on NES. So I agree with you in many regards. I see things like breadcrumb trails and autosaving as a crutch for weaker casual gamers. But I also see the point that people don't like to invest their time into something only to have it shat all over because they can't be online 24/7. There is a huge difference between coming home to a base thats had its door shot off and your gear taken from your storage sheds... As opposed to coming home and finding literally every single door and wall blown to shit. The success of the mods I feel is because there are the different servers with different sets of rules, it allows for a wider community of players to be able to find something they enjoy. Whether thats PvP, PvE, RP, Base Destruction or anything else. It completely defies common sense to limit the choice. This is akin to the "artistic vision" of DICE who did not want to remove their headache inducing blue filter, nor allow server owners access to a variable to disable it. The only difference being one is a AAA multi-million dollar title, and the other is just a mod. A mod which can attribute much of it's success to the community who have helped develop the mods which made it rise to popularity. Now my next point will be posed as a simple question, How many popular servers are running the vanilla epoch files, completely unmodified in any way shape or form. I'm seeing a lot of overpoch, a lot of coins, plot for life, group management, vectors, militarised, fast building... Think about it for a minute, step back and just look at the top 15 servers. There is something to be learnt from that. Sloshtt, cring0, kiwigreen and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm seeing a lot of overpoch, a lot of coins, plot for life, group management, vectors, militarised, fast building... Think about it for a minute, step back and just look at the top 15 servers. There is something to be learnt from that. I played on DE1000 and Dystopia and those servers are pure cancer. They are filled with 15 year old kids that spawn fully geared with private helicopters and 3 min after you kill them they come back to kill you, luckily i always flew in armed mi17 so they couldnt do shit to me. Sometimes i killed them and they spawned fully geared right next to my chopper at balota, trying to shoot me down. Before i could even land the heli and loot them they already shot at me with a new character. So what did i learn from this? I learned that the mod is dead. I really hope this doesnt happen to Arma 3 Epoch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 This value can easily be set to false, So the desire for indestructible bases isn't about trying to create an ideal world. It's a protective measure which is taken against a very toxic (and very prevalent) part of the 'community' But its not a solution. When a scripter gets on a server and starts killing everyone do you put godmode on all the players? No, you go after the scripter. The epoch devs should focus on how to stop dupers and hackers from destroying everyones bases. If you are talking about normal players griefing the solution is really simple, make the c4 so damn rare that they would need 1 year of gametime to destroy your whole base that you made in 1 week. If they wanted your base gone, they would need to take over it and protect it until it despawns, enough time for you to take over the base and maintain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerLove Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Just read this thread while eating my dinner, fairly amusing. I would say 80% of the posts on here are from angry teenagers and them mid 20's folk that call themselves men, still got their pride and manhood issues, don't like being invaded by uninvited guests (part of life unfortunately). Still as a teenager I respected others, only a few drunk occasions where I was out of order. So I read these posts and see not suggestions but orders, orders that you have no right at all to be giving out. So before you tell them how to behave after you write some rather inappropriate comments spare a thought for the thousands of man hours that have gone into "their" mod to make other people happy as well as for themselves, because if they don't like indestructible bases (which now appears to be clear) why the hell would they put another 10000 hours into their mod just to make your spotty faces happy. As my Nan always said, appreciate what you have. My 2 cent. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cletis5 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Your post would have had more merit had you not littered it with jabs at people from the get go. But as it stands you did, so you are really just as bad as the spotty kids you're insulting. Have a pleasent day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerLove Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Your post would have had more merit had you not littered it with jabs at people from the get go. But as it stands you did, so you are really just as bad as the spotty kids you're insulting. Have a pleasent day. Thank you for pointing that out, I am completely aware of that (did chuckle to myself as I was writing it too). However I am not aiming it at people that actually do not deserve it e.g. a Dev that works a full 8-10 hour shift and comes home to start work on his project and read previous crap on here, its aimed at the angry inconsiderate spotty people. Therefore merited, and making me feel good inside. This will be the last I post on this as I know the spotty ones will want to get one up on the adults. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choppra Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 But its not a solution. When a scripter gets on a server and starts killing everyone do you put godmode on all the players? No, you go after the scripter. The epoch devs should focus on how to stop dupers and hackers from destroying everyones bases. If you are talking about normal players griefing the solution is really simple, make the c4 so damn rare that they would need 1 year of gametime to destroy your whole base that you made in 1 week. If they wanted your base gone, they would need to take over it and protect it until it despawns, enough time for you to take over the base and maintain it. Take the C4 out. Simple. Problem solved. Oh wait, there are grenade trucks also and HE rounds on other vehicles that will probably make it into this version of Epoch. (who knows) If you take out C4, Grenade Trucks, etc then people will just kamikazi into a base to destroy it...over and over and over. People do it now to blow up all the vehicles parked inside a base. So many other ways to grief someone's base. In the end, i hope someone adds a custom script for this or the Epoch devs add the option. I think early on it wont matter because I predict most communities will have to do wipes more frequently early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilentNight Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 As far as having destructable bases this should still be the norm, i would however either tweak the armor up on building materials or tweak down the damage of explosives. Also i know they have plans for more buildable objects, some of these should be traps. This would help to defend base when not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyz Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 It's gonna be fun to have indestructible bases. I especially like the fact that if you join a server 1 week too late you cant build anymore because of the world limit. secondly i really like the fact that base raiding will be impossible. Can't wait to rush to be one of the first 5 bases on a server so i can play "overwatch" at the military spawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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