Can someone explain this search for easymode for me?

[Tobias Solem]

Great feedback lorneagle!

 

Glad to see someone who understands game design in a more objective way. :)

[Floyd]

None of the PVE opponents have 3rd person. They have to have direct line of sight to see you. ;) 3rd person turns PVE into easy mode.

I didn't realize PVE involved only AI. I was referring to the "environment". Weather, health, gearing up, etc. Perhaps I have a mis-understanding of what the acronym means?

 

This here is simply false. If I stand behind a wall (for example), I can stay covered by that wall, but still see everything behind and beyond the wall in 3dp. Sure, anyone in the same situation can do that. But a person in 3dp who is coming from another direction cannot see if there is anyone behind that wall, which gives one person the advantage. In first-person view, the playing field is even because to see someone you have to have line of sight (from both perspectives) and most importantly, no one can see over or through walls if they are hiding behind them.

And shouldn't the person approaching the wall understand that principle? And as you pointed out (and what is inferred in my comment) the situation is reverses with the roles are swapped. That's all I meant.

All other fps I've played are first person, but for some reason, ARMA's first person is most uncomfortable to me. I haven't put my finger on what it is, but I can't play in that perspective for very long.

[Tobias Solem]

 

And shouldn't the person approaching the wall understand that principle? And as you pointed out (and what is inferred in my comment) the situation is reverses with the roles are swapped. That's all I meant.

 

Then 3dp *is* easier for whoever has the advantage of hiding behind walls to see over them. You already have the element of surprise when you are hiding and waiting for the enemy, then you ALSO on top of that have the ability to see them when they have no chance of seeing you. Essentially, the same advantage of someone that utilizes a wall hack in a first person shooter. And you still claim it is not easier?

[GasT]

Then 3dp *is* easier for whoever has the advantage of hiding behind walls to see over them. You already have the element of surprise when you are hiding and waiting for the enemy, then you ALSO on top of that have the ability to see them when they have no chance of seeing you. Essentially, the same advantage of someone that utilizes a wall hack in a first person shooter. And you still claim it is not easier?

 

For the one with the advantage point its easier yes but this also forces you to be much more cautious and aware of your surroundings when you run around, make sure you have cover when you are running close to known camper spots and think about his camera angles to stay hidden.  There are a lot more battles being fought on 3rd person servers vs 1st person, people rarely run past each other in 3rd person almost alway´s one if not both see´s each other while on 1st person people actually runs past each other with out knowing it.

 

I would almost say that it´s harder in 3rd person PVP but it´s definitely harder with vehicles on 1st person. 

 

Edit: and for Vehicle realism there are better much much better Simulators out there, I´m here for PVP mainly.

[airtonix]

Could always implement this: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SM9F1IOsXg

[GasT]

Could always implement this: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SM9F1IOsXg

 

Way to flawed. It completely clips out the character instead of showing parts of it that should be visible, shadows disappear that should be visible.

 

Why not just suck it up and live with how it work instead of being part of a 5% of the community that bitch about it. Wall peeking I understand that but from what I have seen in some videos that is even easier in 1st person by simple bino/no weapon running into the wall. Saw someone even switched from his OP 3rd person to 1st person to easily look thru the whole wall instead of parts of the cam glitching thru.

 

To me 3rd person compensates for the lack of stances, yes even if ARMA has tons of them its still not possible to just peek thru some holes, only let the tip of your head rise over a wall and so on.

[Tobias Solem]

 

Why not just suck it up and live with how it work instead of being part of a 5% of the community that bitch about it. 

 

I actually really wanted to avoid that debate (like I said in the OP) because I've discussed it, and argued it to death. I actually had to hold myself back from responding (and continuing the never-ending debate). 

 

But yeah, basically that's what I've done, and the OP is more about the "pursuit of easymode" rather than just 3dp vs. 1p in particular.

[js2k6]

heres the thing.

i cannot and will not play arma 2 in first person camera (aside from flying helis or jets)

it's horrible. the headbob and the fov is just nauseating

 

arma 3 has rectified the issue. and i play primarily in 1st person.

 

The second post, by CordlAsis sums up a lot of what i've seen in my time running epoch servers

it fits to a tee.. people join, they want everything handed to them. If they aren't the king of the server they can't handle it and leave.
 

you need to start with a gun, be able to deploy a bike...

hell deploying a bike isnt enough. there are that many dipshits with an unjustified sense of self entitlement who think its ok to ask an admin to tp them back to their body after getting killed in pvp or even by their own stupidity. that then leave the server when you refuse.

 

the other shit part i see, as soon as it gets dark. the server empties.

the only way i've been able to maintain a populated server was keep it 24/7 day.

 

I hear a lot of people talk about the good old days of dayz when it wasnt all pvp.

I've been playing the mod since probably a month after it was first released. My first life, I made it from kamenka to cherno. unable to break the LOS from the train of zombies following me. I got into an industrial. found a hatchet. killed a few zombies.

player runs at me. bandit mask ak... no communication... just you were killed
you simply could not enter elektro, cherno or stary without dying. noone ever communicated, i think i've run into a grand total of 1 friendly person who asked me to bloodbag him in cherno.

hell i'd even run around elektro unarmed talking on direct and 9/10 times i'd get killed on sight.
spawn in, get cherno. barely make it 5 steps. guy on 3 yellow industrial has shot you with an as50.

Maybe the ANZ public hive servers were just brutal. but this supposed "not everyone KOS" paradise that i see people reminiscing of, just never happened for me.

Must've been something that only happened in EU or USA

 

Getting a little off topic however,

 

ArmA in general has seen a massive shift in the playerbase.

I remember playing in the steaknbeer 80p wasteland cherno server, and it was an absolute blast. people just killing each other all over the place. Everyone having a good time.

 

Now i host wasteland altis servers, All i seem to see is people who want to PvE, accumulate money. talk a lot of shit.

and cry and leave the server when someone kills them. It's the playerbase. Not much more can be said really

 

I had always wondered why I'd see the hardcore realism unit guys always talking about how much they hated DayZ and Wasteland for what they did to the arma community.

I can almost relate to it now...

the servers i run are part of the problem i'm sure.

 

spawning with guns, deploy bike, one is militarised with no zeds...

but i guess we all want different things from the mod.

 

I've done the survival thing, living up far north east. killing boars and making the trek into krasnostav looking for fresh water. it does get boring fast.

zombies are no threat and never will be... the one time they were 1.7.x patch... they were bs hard, and got nerfed due to community whinging like girls.

but the more i play... even a3 epoch you learn the patterns... see a cultist. charge him and full auto. half a mag he drops... bait the sapper. let him get close, and detonate as you run away unscathed. shoot the drone before the ai spawn.
i think the only times i found the antagonists in any of these games challenging was when i was new to it.

enough drunken ramblings from me. carry on chaps.

[lorneagle]

Regarding the 3rd vs 1st person debate: The answer is rather simple. Neither 3rd person nor 1st person is 'easier'. It is just different which means you have to adjust your play style to it.

 

It is not easier because the advantages that come with 3rd person (looking over walls) quickly become a disadvantage if you are the guy who is approaching a wall.

 

3rd person vs 1st person is just a matter of taste, and taste as we all know, is not debatable.

 

I played both, I prefer 3rd person because I like to see my character in a game where you can customize you character's outfit, it is that simple.

 

 

 

Back on topic:

 

The search for easy mode is a result of our fast paced society and the way video games work. Most AAA titles will shower you with rewards and even if you fail there aren't any consequences. It is games like FTL and DayZ mod that brought back the idea of a game being a challenge. And it was interesting in the discovery phase of the game. But once you developed a routine, some aspects of the game become boring, so people want them to be removed. As a result the game becomes 'easier'. The trick is to find a perfect balance :)

 

I ran an A2 Epoch Server for about two months with a couple of friends. We specifically created a server without the easy-mode mods like self-bloodbag, or being able to buy locks @ traders. We also limited the amount of heavily armed cars by increasing the price. That way we had the focus on infantry battles and we had a good money sink for the UBER rich. We also kept a fairly vanilla loot table.

 

We had a decent population at around 30 to 35 at peak times and 10-20 off peak, and althought we had the occasional request for easy-mode mods, at the end of the day people generally enjoyed having to work for their stuff.

We had a pretty good balance, however, we made the mistake of setting up some fair play rules, which caused us soooo many headaches with all the kids out there.

 

It is funny how you don't feel like an adult when you are in your thirties, until you deal with an angry 13 year old kid who is convinced that it is his god given birth right to get his gear back which he just lost due to a game bug.

 

I wish I was able to create a stable community of mature people that understand that a game is a game is a game. That have fun with it instead of being childishly competitive all the time.

[Capwned]

Way to flawed. It completely clips out the character instead of showing parts of it that should be visible, shadows disappear that should be visible.

 

Why not just suck it up and live with how it work instead of being part of a 5% of the community that bitch about it. Wall peeking I understand that but from what I have seen in some videos that is even easier in 1st person by simple bino/no weapon running into the wall. Saw someone even switched from his OP 3rd person to 1st person to easily look thru the whole wall instead of parts of the cam glitching thru.

 

To me 3rd person compensates for the lack of stances, yes even if ARMA has tons of them its still not possible to just peek thru some holes, only let the tip of your head rise over a wall and so on.

 

Pretty much summed up the situation in arma 3.

[Sequisha]

Could always implement this: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SM9F1IOsXg

Next person that suggests 4th wall is getting a paddlin'.

 

 

[Uro]

This is purely my opinion:

 

FP you have more immersion - try it (for more than 5 minutes) - that moment when you hear the sappers or cloaks creeping up behind you in 1st person and your all WTF!?!?! Same with ANY footsteps / other strange sounds :D

(I can step outside when I hear a drone and pinpoint it everytime because the sound is more relative).

FP you dont know what's over that wall when you hear footsteps, the choice is yours whether to play it offensive or defensive, without knowing in advance whats coming.

 

3DP breaks that immersion I feel as yes, you can see over walls, outside windows etc from an angle you'd never see in FP/RL.

 

The sound factor is a major player in Arma for me - sounds originate from a truer direction in 1st person, people miss this fact in 3rd person where it's more of a rough area (left/right/up/down) the sound comes from.

 

Remember when you went from speakers to a headset? Yep the difference in sound direction is THAT much with 3DP vs FP

 

Of course we'll always have the 3DP Vs. FP arguement, but by and large first person is a truer perspective for this game imho.

 

This is why I plan on keeping our server Hardcore NO 3DP - for people who want immersion in the game.

 

I'm not denying you get immersion in 3DP servers, just not as much as FP only servers by a large margin.

 

 

There is an issue related to FP/3DP on the A3 Feedback tracker which is propositioning the ability for mission/mod creators to be able to define when 3DP and FP is available to players by switching the difficulty setting - say on entering a vehicle to enable 3DP and going back to FP upon exiting that vehicle - which may be a more acceptable alternative to one or the other.  Here's the link for anyone interested - http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16718

[Osiris72]

For those who feel claustrophobic in FP, if you haven't already...get a trackIR.  Worth every penny and steps up the immersion to another level.   It will take a bit to get used to, but after that, you can't play without it. 

[Osiris72]

For those who feel claustrophobic in FP, if you haven't already...get a trackIR.  Worth every penny and steps up the immersion to another level.   It will take a bit to get used to, but after that, you can't play without it. 

[Zombiemeatspin]

When I first started playing dayz back in may or june 2012 I was playing first person view only until I realised a few months later that there was actually a third person view. The thing is overall it gives you a much better situation awareness and a much bigger field of view. Now going back to dayz standalone and arma 3 hardcore playing first person view works but it gives me headaches with the headbob even when it is turned off. Flying the choppers or a plane in fps/v is a lot more harder and can be a bit of a pain to crash after you spent hours working on repairing it.

 

In a3 I've played in bp's and epoch's hardcore servers for a while but it seems that no one want to join in big numbers since they're used to play using the 3rd person view. People want easymode because they're tired of the Arma bug's and the old way of doing things. Do you remember spending 4 hours to repair the huey to find all the parts with a (shitty loot table) in stock arma 2 dz? You have to find the engine both rotors 5 or 6 windows two scrap metals a couple jerry cans to get to the fuel tanks and then fill it up manually! No one wants to do that once they had a taste of big jerry can's and auto refuel. On top of that you could loose your huey to a stupid random red chain and god knows how many you get in arma...

[js2k6]

For those who feel claustrophobic in FP, if you haven't already...get a trackIR.  Worth every penny and steps up the immersion to another level.   It will take a bit to get used to, but after that, you can't play without it. 

 

I've been looking at the trackir for over a year now and haven't felt justified in spending that amount of money on it.

And now with a3 advanced flight model and my overwhelming love of flying the huron. I think i need to spend 160 and get a saitek x52 hotas and upgrade from this crappy cyborg v1, so the trackir gets pushed further back in priorities.

 

Now you've got me looking at them again. and I can't afford it. Someone hide my credit card before I do some irreparable damage. this looks so much better than the POV hat on my flight stick.

[Osiris72]

Well you do have some other options, there are things like face track noir that uses a webcam ... some like it, some don't

 

You might be able to get a used version 4 for cheaper....just make sure you get the 6DOF vector expansion with it.  I have that model and have no desire to go to a 5.  

I've seen ver 4s  on ebay for ~100 US, but I guess being down under could make things more difficult on that front.

[Čeh]

Or freetrack, facetracknoir was always kinda buggy for me

[RangeCreeds]

There are already scripts in Arma 2 to limit what you can do in 3rd person, for example going prone forces you into 1st person so you cannot lie on roofs and spot people without any risk. This can then be taken one step further when it comes to walls and such, all it takes is some people to get there heads together and create it.

 

As for the *Vanilla* empty servers, when your server is exactly the same as say 100 other *Vanilla* servers there is nothing there to get people onto your server, this is why people chuck in the scripts to entice people on. I hope they do something about the medical system though further down the line, it's literally easy mode in groups.

[Coco-Nuts]

I'm really disappointed about the guys who spitting on the developeurs & this mod.

I know there are many bugs etc... but we can play on this mod completely free of charge while the team development expand a lot of time to give us a real game experience...

[Mercules]

For those who feel claustrophobic in FP, if you haven't already...get a trackIR.  Worth every penny and steps up the immersion to another level.   It will take a bit to get used to, but after that, you can't play without it. 

 

I have to agree. TrackIR makes any game that uses it THAT much better. Even driving in FP is easier with a TrackIR since I can look into turns like I would driving down the road in real life. 

[airtonix]

Way to flawed. 

 

While I can concede the logic of your statements, I would perhaps point out that this little bit here is an emotionally charged over exaggeration.

 

But then most of the polarisation in the gaming community is all about foaming at the mouth about pixels rather than going outside and actually defending your rights.

 

When a critical mass of people owning devices like occulus rift, this debate will become harder to dimiss with simple "drink a cup of concrete".