Thermal Weapons: to-be or not to-be

[travis90]

Do you prefer thermal weapons in the servers you play in? Some might call it a near wallhack but some might call it just part of the game? Whats your thoughts?

[Wesley]

Maybe if you make it only available at a trader for say 4 briefcases, maybe then.  Players always die and lose stuff, will they be willing to lose 4 briefcases on a gun?

[Eegore]

 TWS was in vanilla DayZ for a while but the community felt that it didn't fit in well and I agree.  Personally I would like to have seen fewer military grade weapons but in general I think thermal just makes DayZ to damn easy.  In standard ARMA with human players and ramped up AI shooting back its a different story, but still a huge advantage.   

 

 The problem with making them a sold "rarity" is that it will only help well-kitted teams get richer and maintain a PvP advantage over others. 

 

  No matter how rare or expensive an item is, people will obtain it and groups will get it faster thus maintaining leverage in their favor.  This is why we see based with 20+ safes in them and such.  Group hoarding. 

[FFDP]

I love the TWS. Its a great sight. I love it on my Apache too. What's not to like about using a thermal weapon sight? unless you're on the receiving end of course, lol.

[FFDP]

I use it in Arma 3 too. Always carry it in my bag incase I need it.

[Black_Sheep]

That’s the thing, this is a survival post apocalypse game. If ppl want to use all the advanced weapons etc then just play Arma as they dont IMO have a place in DayZ

[prominentalex]

That’s the thing, this is a survival post apocalypse game. If ppl want to use all the advanced weapons etc then just play Arma as they dont IMO have a place in DayZ

The persistent world and the amount of work already gone into DayZ makes it a good platform for either a survival game or PVP.

[Firefly]

I like using them but on the other hand they really are too powerful a tool. In Arma 3 it just makes intelligent use of terrain pointless. 

[Kildaru]

I don't see why so many people are complaining about TWS weapons. As far as snipers go (MK17) The zeroing only goes up to 300-350. You'd actualyl have to know how to use the mildot system to snipe with it properly. As far as the challenge? When you can kill someone with a Lee Enfield from 300m away and you're complaining about how OP the TWS weapons are, there's something wrong with you. If there are large groups decked out with crazy weapons, learn how to ambush properly and kill them. Only thing left is to profit.

[Firefly]

I don't see why so many people are complaining about TWS weapons

 

 

No one is complaining, its a statement of fact. With the thermal weapons, regardless of map or if you are playing Arma 2 or 3 you can spot players very easily, from a great distance. No one mentioned the Mk17 either, perhaps you need to read the topic before you start ranting. 

 

Since in DayZ the only real defence you have is moving and hiding careful, and thermal weapons dispense with this. Then you really are better off playing a game mode such as Wasteland. 

[Kildaru]

No one is complaining, its a statement of fact. With the thermal weapons, regardless of map or if you are playing Arma 2 or 3 you can spot players very easily, from a great distance. No one mentioned the Mk17 either, perhaps you need to read the topic before you start ranting. 

 

Since in DayZ the only real defence you have is moving and hiding careful, and thermal weapons dispense with this. Then you really are better off playing a game mode such as Wasteland. 

 

The MK17 has a TWS variant. That's why I mentioned it.

[Randodom]

TWS weapons dont belong in DayZ,

 

I don't see why so many people are complaining about TWS weapons. As far as snipers go (MK17) The zeroing only goes up to 300-350. You'd actualyl have to know how to use the mildot system to snipe with it properly. As far as the challenge? When you can kill someone with a Lee Enfield from 300m away and you're complaining about how OP the TWS weapons are, there's something wrong with you. If there are large groups decked out with crazy weapons, learn how to ambush properly and kill them. Only thing left is to profit.

 

Also this^
People dont use the L85 TWS and ppl wouldnt use the MK 17 TWS SD to kill ppl either, they use it to spot ppl easily because they dont want to do any work to get the kill...

and then they switch to their M24(or any other 7.62 sniper) or (LRR, M107, AS50 if server has them) and shoots them...

 

It jsut makes it too easy.

[-shadow-]

TWS weapons dont belong in DayZ,

 

 

Also this^

People dont use the L85 TWS and ppl wouldnt use the MK 17 TWS SD to kill ppl either, they use it to spot ppl easily because they dont want to do any work to get the kill...

and then they switch to their M24(or any other 7.62 sniper) or (LRR, M107, AS50 if server has them) and shoots them...

 

It jsut makes it too easy.

 

Yup that's what used to happen in Villain DayZ all the time ... L85 AWS + AS50 combos or L85 AWS + DMR.

Got old pretty quickly being killed by them too.

[FFDP]

So post apocalypse, every thermal weapon sight ever made will just vanish into thin air? lol thats got to be one of the dumbest excuses I've ever seen.

[HARLAN]

batteries for them?  do you know anyone who specializes in fixing thermal optics?

 

also, no one is stopping the server admins from adding them to traders.

[FFDP]

If you want TWS removed then you should want any vehicle with TWS to be removed as well. If you only complain about the small arms, then you're a hypocrite.

[Firefly]

So post apocalypse, every thermal weapon sight ever made will just vanish into thin air? lol thats got to be one of the dumbest excuses I've ever seen. 

 

 

Thermal optics for service rifles are not exactly standard issue equipment even in the military, the availability of them civilian wise would be limited. Rifles are a different matter since when I worked in Texas and Canada you could walk into pretty much any gun store and find fully automatic weapons or .50 cal rifles and handguns. If DayZ was based in the UK you would spend most of your time running around with hand weapons, or if in Glasgow hammers with razorblades taped to them. 

 

At the end of the day it depends on what you want your server to be, should they be in Epoch as a default configuration? Absolutely not but some servers can run them without any real issue. Quoting realism facts in a game like this, with its large number of logic face palms is silly. 

[Poncho]

To OP in my mind, I'm more after a scavengers apocalyptic rebuilding of society or some resemblance of your past life. Trying to live again instead of just surviving, I think less powerful and fewer military grade weapons fit into that.

 

I have found you get a much more interesting firefight between two guys with a plain old AK then guys with Military weapons with crazy sights and attachments on, it's a lot more gritty and bare-bones. A feeling I think players should be getting more from a post apocalyptic game such as this.

[SantaKlau]

It doesnt matter if its an tws or an normal sight scope. If i didnt saw the sniper who wants to hunt me down, im dead also. So it doesnt matter which gun he use. I allow the guns on my server but only findable at ai. No one can sell or buy them so they dont give profit. And anybody can be smart to kill an bot.

[veeshan]

Using realism as a reason to explain why TWS shouldn't exist is silly. Gasoline would have gone bad after a year or so. Non-refrigerated bloodbags randomly lying about that you can just infuse into your body? Chowing painkillers/morphine and not dying of overdose? It's a game, and good gameplay will always trump realism.

[Radiix]

Just a huge NO, because these weapons are op like hell.

 

There is no skill needed to actually spot an oppenent in the wilderness...

[1R0NS1DE]

If i was to add thermal to anything it would be rangefinders, from there people would only have it on those and not be making a weapon OP, there is a MOD on Armaholic http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=11589 that puts thermal on the FN FAL AN/PVS4, (SVD NSPU which is not ingame anyway) and  the Rangefinders, i am sure it could be changed so that the  FN FAL AN/PVS4, SVD NSPU are excluded from the mod and it is just the rangefinders that are modified.

 

if it was to be added to the official epoch mod, then it may be, that we could be given the option to turn it on or off depending on how we like to setup our servers just like other options like the taming of dogs

 

or you can add it to your server yourself, up to you

 

 

1R0NS1DE

[Sequisha]

People often forget the reasons why they were phased out of the community and ultimately added to the ban lost on the official mod.

The AS-50 is easy to explain, every kid hacking had one (thermal variant or not) and the weapon economy was overrun with them; particularly for the main hive.  That is before the private hives started to thrive.

The L-85 AWS thermal variant was present during this period and was often found in the backpack, used in combination with the AS-50 quite frequently.
Keep in mind at this time when the weapons were heavily being reconsidered by the masses in terms of balance, scripts, hacks and all kinds of ESP overlays were running rampant.
Because a lot of the offenders were difficult to prove and ban with sufficient reason, many of the weapons they used caught a lot of flack...and in some cases took total blame for the imbalance that took place.

 

I feel like the DayZ community as a whole made their general decision and these wonderful weapons were locked away, given the scarlet letter and scoffed at with the simple phrase "too op".

I think we can all agree that these weapons would cause problems in terms of balance if they were too common. 
We wanted to introduce some of these in a way that would establish value in the weapon, maintain rarity(dissimilar to the chainsaw's type of rarity), and really make someone question whether or not they should be running around with said weapons...in fear of losing them.

This system didn't make it into the latest patch, as it's still being developed; I know it will work..it's just a question whether or not it belongs in Epoch in it's current state.

I would like MGT and any other servers that do use these weapons to chime in on this issue, because I really think it's a shame that these wonderful optics aren't available to players.
I'm willing to bet that 70% of the player-base has never even looked through an AWS scope.

TL;DR  I think they would be ok to re-introduce if they were in fact rare and valuable.  Keeping them sacred would be the key.

[Entaro]

Gives too great of an advantage to the user, takes no skill to use.  Though, I feel the same way about zeroing.

 

Realistic? debatable.  Fun? no.

[veeshan]

IMO the least impactful TWS weapon is the MK16 TWS, since it really isn't worth a damn at long range due to a lack of zoom.