Idea: Weapon malfunction

[Tobias Solem]

Anyone who has dealt with firearms know that they can jam or malfunction, especially if they aren't maintained. Personally I would like to see more factors involved with variety among the weapons on the map, instead of every Lynx being created equal and everyone and his mother having a perfect operational Lynx, the weapons actually malfunction.

 

This is how it could work short-term and long term:

 

 

Short term change (ie. next alpha version)

 

* Every time you fire a bullet with a weapon, there is a chance that the weapon turns into a useless hunk of crap (broken weapon) that simply cannot be used.

 

 

Long term change (ie. when it's done)

 

* Add a weapon maintenance kit (depletable and lootable)

* Add weapon replacement part(s) (lootable)

* Add a unique factor for each gun that essentially makes each weapon have a 0-100% function

* For every bullet fired, theres an X% chance that the weapon jams, and a Y% chance that the weapon becomes less clean

* Y% decreases the function % by Z%

* Z% is affected by how unclean the gun already is, the more gunked down the gun is, the more swiftly its ruination becomes

* Slightly decrease accuracy when a gun loses function - a sooty gunky barrel also can, worst case lead to a barrel expansion/explosion which would render the gun unusable and possibly kill the player

* A weapon maintenance kit can be used to clean the gun up to a certain point (ie. all guns have a lifetime)

 

Malfunction table:

1. Weapon jams (bullet/casing jams the gun making it impossible to fire another round without reloading the weapon (unjamming it))

2. Weapon jams (serious jam of the magazine or pullback mechanism, weapon needs to be oiled to be fired again)

3. Weapon malfunction (Weapon needs a replacement part) - something broke inside the gun and needs to be replaced

4. Barrel expansion (Due to an unmaintained weapon's condition, the barrel expands and the bullet is lodged in the barrel making the weapon a useless piece of unrepairable metal)

5. Barrel explosion (Due to an unmaintained weapon's condition, the barrel expands and explodes sending pieces of shrapnel in a 10m radius causing severe damage to the player

 

 

Essentially all guns of the same make aren't equal in performance and shouldn't be equal in performance, and different guns are more or less sensitive to becoming dirty. Perhaps having guns that are terrible to begin with (ie. certain SMGs) unable to reach a function % higher than 75 just to reflect that these types of guns are prone to malfunction?

[Bushwick]

Bump for interest.

[TheHermit]

Will this lead to all items being degradable, ie. sledgehammers and hatchets?

[Tobias Solem]

Will this lead to all items being degradable, ie. sledgehammers and hatchets?

 

Don't know, this is just an idea. I am in no shape or form responsible for what the devs do or do not do. But yes, if it were up to me, whacking an axe into (for example) something made out of solid concrete, that axe should soon degrade and become useless as well. In fact, I made a custom script for chainsaws, hatches, sledgehammers etc. for ARMA2 Epoch that made so that there was a 1/30 chance to get a piece of scrap metal and lose the object if you used it on ... for example metal doors.

[RC_Robio]

I'm liking what you are suggesting. But this would be similar to like what DayZ SA has atm with a few differences. But I like the barrel explosion idea especially for weapons that can carry 150 round magazines.

[Armored_Code]

RNG in combat on a game like this? No thanks.

 

If it was a singleplayer mod, then im all for it.

 

Scenario:

 

Both you and enemy player have the same MX LMG. RNG kicks in and your barrel explodes, now you have an unsuable weapon and die to the other player.

 

This is not fun because it is not fair in a PvP match.

[RC_Robio]

RNG in combat on a game like this? No thanks.

 

If it was a singleplayer mod, then im all for it.

 

Scenario:

 

Both you and enemy player have the same MX LMG. RNG kicks in and your barrel explodes, now you have an unsuable weapon and die to the other player.

 

This is not fun because it is not fair in a PvP match.

When has a PvP match been fair in Epoch?

[Armored_Code]

When has a PvP match been fair in Epoch?

 

Because all the choices are made by you the player. If you see a guy with a rifle and shoot at them with your pistol and you die. Thats your fault, you put yourself at a disadvantage. You could of moved on or tryed to find a rifle before engaging.

 

Same if you engage a group alone, and not find a supressor to shoot and scout with and die. Your fault. If you engage with your loud rifle thats your problem.

 

Now losing a firefight because of a dice roll? Thats not fair. RNG in combat is not for a multiplayer shooter.

[aposnow]

i would say... just add cleaning/general maintenance.. where if your fighting and your trigger goes all mushy then just hit R to stip the mag clear any fault and continue to fight

[RC_Robio]

Because all the choices are made by you the player. If you see a guy with a rifle and shoot at them with your pistol and you die. Thats your fault, you put yourself at a disadvantage. You could of moved on or tryed to find a rifle before engaging.

 

Same if you engage a group alone, and not find a supressor to shoot and scout with and die. Your fault. If you engage with your loud rifle thats your problem.

 

Now losing a firefight because of a dice roll? Thats not fair. RNG in combat is not for a multiplayer shooter.

I don't understand why it's not fair? Is it unfair because it happened to you? If everybody has a chance of it happening then it's fair.

[Armored_Code]

I don't understand why it's not fair? Is it unfair because it happened to you? If everybody has a chance of it happening then it's fair.

 

It is not fair because a machine is deciding who wins. Regardless of measures taken to prevent disadvanteges.

[Chief]

I think the thought of this idea is generally a good one to the point of making pvp exchanges a little more interesting.  However as person that has played arma 3/epoch and an owner of real guns I would say nay to this idea.  First you have to understand that guns dont just break.  They have to be in really poor condition to have the kind of malfunctions you are talking about, especially the expansion of the barrel, commonly seen if using wrong ammo or the barrel is full of dirt.  And this shouldnt just be a percentage chance thing because it could happen at any time thus rendering a weapon that should be fine for 1000s of rounds trash. 

 

Basically if you look towards dayz even though weapons can technically be ruined if they are on a persons body when shot (which makes them useless) there is no variation to weapons that can be used at the moment.  Why you might ask?  Because getting a system like that to behave realistically is a pain in the butt.  I honestly dont know how they are even going to do it and that may drive many people away from that game.

 

Another example is BP.  Now I have not seen what they have done recently but their initial answer was to make guns that were of bad condition that had the chance of jamming.  In a way that is smart but I believe the chance of jam was actually really low and the guns would only fire in semi mode.  Still not exactly what you are talking about but similar.  Even they did not think it prudent, at the time, to mess with the mechanics of the regular weapons as it is not something that is considered easily transferable between a game and real life.

 

Anyway I just dont think that this particular venue is something that should be turned towards.  I could be interesting but nobody wants there perfect gun blowing up on them in the wrong situation for no reason.

[RC_Robio]

It is not fair because a machine is deciding who wins. Regardless of measures taken to prevent disadvanteges.

That same machine decides whether your leg should break, or if you vehicle will get damaged by hitting that small rock, or if that bullet will land where you intended it to. It's all based on chance that the devs can rework to their liking.

[TwistedXvs]

more time should be invested in getting everything working before we add a bunch of bullshit thats just going to piss people off.

[Tobias Solem]

I think the thought of this idea is generally a good one to the point of making pvp exchanges a little more interesting.  However as person that has played arma 3/epoch and an owner of real guns I would say nay to this idea.  First you have to understand that guns dont just break.  They have to be in really poor condition to have the kind of malfunctions you are talking about, especially the expansion of the barrel, commonly seen if using wrong ammo or the barrel is full of dirt.  And this shouldnt just be a percentage chance thing because it could happen at any time thus rendering a weapon that should be fine for 1000s of rounds trash. 

 

Basically if you look towards dayz even though weapons can technically be ruined if they are on a persons body when shot (which makes them useless) there is no variation to weapons that can be used at the moment.  Why you might ask?  Because getting a system like that to behave realistically is a pain in the butt.  I honestly dont know how they are even going to do it and that may drive many people away from that game.

 

Another example is BP.  Now I have not seen what they have done recently but their initial answer was to make guns that were of bad condition that had the chance of jamming.  In a way that is smart but I believe the chance of jam was actually really low and the guns would only fire in semi mode.  Still not exactly what you are talking about but similar.  Even they did not think it prudent, at the time, to mess with the mechanics of the regular weapons as it is not something that is considered easily transferable between a game and real life.

 

Anyway I just dont think that this particular venue is something that should be turned towards.  I could be interesting but nobody wants there perfect gun blowing up on them in the wrong situation for no reason.

Basically anything that obstructs the barrel can cause it to explode, true:

It still has to be put to game-mechanisms though, I think picking up a rifle and just using it should carry some risk. That's the point here, the different "possibilities" should be put in perpective and is there only for some dynamic events, naturally a gun jamming should be what happens most of the time. You see what I mean?

[Chief]

I would understand a gun jamming to happen more than what happened in the video to be obvious.  However  the worst thing to happen to me while I was using a firearm was a stovetop (where the ejected cartridge gets stuck before it fully ejects).  As far as the video is concerned there is no way to tell what the guy did to the gun before it was fired.  Maybe he started to fall and used the gun to stop him and he forced a wad of dirt into the barrel.  I did see a large dark object fly away (could have been anything).  My point is that a little debris does not cause a gun barrel to blow like what was shown.  It has to be enough to actually cause the pressure to become so high such that the round cannot proceed down the barrel. (Note that any gun fired will have some gun powder residue in the barrel and that does not cause what was shown in the vid.)

 

This may have been what you are trying to say (note obstructs could mean varying degrees of debris) but I just wanted to solidify my viewpoint.

 

Anyway as far as jamming is concerned I have not had a round actually jam in my rifle yet.  Please note that I do take care of my guns but still I don't clean them after going to the range every time so even if a gun is a little dirty it still isn't going to have a very high chance of jamming.  I would go as far as to say that most of the time when people encounter jams it is either due to the amount of outside dirt (non gun powder residue) that has accumulated in the rifle or the mishandling of said rifle that causes it.  Either way if I found a gun in a gun case in a postapocolyptic period I would consider it to be reasonably clean.\

 

I might be rambling and Im sorry for that. Basically what I still believe what I stated before, if something like this was to be implemented then it would have to be done SUPER carefully because nobody wants to have there gun jam when there is no reason for it to have happened.

[Nonya]

I've NEVER had a misfire, even using beat-up M16s, M4s, and M9s in the Army.

I've put about 2000+ rounds through my current M4 with no problems and just basic cleaning every couple-hundred rounds.

Maybe about 1000 through my XDm with no issues.  Several Para double-stack 1911s (notoriously known for issues) I've never had a problem with either.

The only weapons I've had issues with are the family M1A carbines, mostly because 2 of those are war bring-backs and I think it's time to take them to a Class III smith and have them completely rebuilt.

Also had a couple of issues with finicky .22 ammo going through a pistol suppressor however everyone knows rimfire ammo is finicky at times.

I don't think this is needed.

[shamE12]

http://youtu.be/31g0YE61PLQ

[Tobias Solem]

I've NEVER had a misfire, even using beat-up M16s, M4s, and M9s in the Army.

I've put about 2000+ rounds through my current M4 with no problems and just basic cleaning every couple-hundred rounds.

Maybe about 1000 through my XDm with no issues.  Several Para double-stack 1911s (notoriously known for issues) I've never had a problem with either.

The only weapons I've had issues with are the family M1A carbines, mostly because 2 of those are war bring-backs and I think it's time to take them to a Class III smith and have them completely rebuilt.

Also had a couple of issues with finicky .22 ammo going through a pistol suppressor however everyone knows rimfire ammo is finicky at times.

I don't think this is needed.

That's my point, you need to use the maintenance kit to have your gun behave properly.

[ImSoEnigma]

Having this kind of addition to the mod would have to take into account for every single guns reliability and likely hood to actually misfire or degrade in quality it would take an incredible amount of time and testing and I'm pretty sure 90% of people would not even want to try it because it would just be a pain in the ass imo.

[Tobias Solem]

Having this kind of addition to the mod would have to take into account for every single guns reliability and likely hood to actually misfire or degrade in quality it would take an incredible amount of time and testing and I'm pretty sure 90% of people would not even want to try it because it would just be a pain in the ass imo.

 

Gathering food and drink might also be considered "a pain in the ass", but it's still a part of the game. Having tons of weaponry randomly in churches and everywhere will mean that some may have been well-maintained, whereas others may have been in a pile of mud for months, and the game should reflect that dynamic. Finding 100% fresh and new guns that work 100% of the time kind of diminishes the authenticity aspect.

 

And while I agree that a well-maintained weapon should work 99% of the time, my point is that the guns you find not necessarily are well maintained, have been properly stored and handled, etc. - as you may have noticed there's been two years after a mass-extinction of mankind, and the chaos that ensued will mean that there's gonna be some stuff that have been ill treated.

[kiwigreen]

Gathering food and drink might also be considered "a pain in the ass", but it's still a part of the game. Having tons of weaponry randomly in churches and everywhere will mean that some may have been well-maintained, whereas others may have been in a pile of mud for months, and the game should reflect that dynamic. Finding 100% fresh and new guns that work 100% of the time kind of diminishes the authenticity aspect.

 

And while I agree that a well-maintained weapon should work 99% of the time, my point is that the guns you find not necessarily are well maintained, have been properly stored and handled, etc. - as you may have noticed there's been two years after a mass-extinction of mankind, and the chaos that ensued will mean that there's gonna be some stuff that have been ill treated.

so you're suggesting  the loot we find should reflect the point there has been a mass-extinction of mankind for two years? to do this surely then you would have to do this with all things in the game not just guns? its to dayz standalone for my liking you can keep your ruined beans. 

[Tobias Solem]

so you're suggesting  the loot we find should reflect the point there has been a mass-extinction of mankind for two years? to do this surely then you would have to do this with all things in the game not just guns? its to dayz standalone for my liking you can keep your ruined beans. 

 

The universe and all its aspects should reflect the backstory, yes. 

That's why they don't have laser rifles in WW2-games, or McDonald's in The Witcher 3.

 

The reason why a lot of the edibles in Epoch are canned food, soda, jars of water, etc. is because an adherence to this, with some slack given for the futuristic setting with some developments in technology, most of this is authentic. 

 

Epoch is a post-apocalyptic game just like DayZ, though different apocalypses, different adversaries, it's still supposed to be a harsh survival type of game. Which of course isn't what everybody wants, which is precisely why there is Call of Duty for the kids that prefer brainless shooters. ^^ 

[kiwigreen]

The universe and all its aspects should reflect the backstory, yes. 

That's why they don't have laser rifles in WW2-games, or McDonald's in The Witcher 3.

 

The reason why a lot of the edibles in Epoch are canned food, soda, jars of water, etc. is because an adherence to this, with some slack given for the futuristic setting with some developments in technology, most of this is authentic. 

 

Epoch is a post-apocalyptic game just like DayZ, though different apocalypses, different adversaries, it's still supposed to be a harsh survival type of game. Which of course isn't what everybody wants, which is precisely why there is Call of Duty for the kids that prefer brainless shooters. ^^ 

why would you turn this into a personal attack on me '' which is precisely why there is Call of Duty for the kids that prefer brainless shooters. ^^ '' ? real mature of you.

[Tobias Solem]

why would you turn this into a personal attack on me '' which is precisely why there is Call of Duty for the kids that prefer brainless shooters. ^^ '' ? real mature of you.

 

Why did you think that particular part was specifically addressed to you personally? If I wanted to attack you personally I would do it in quite a different way. For example:

 

"You are a whiny little bitch sponge."

 

Now that would've been personal.

 

I was speaking in general terms. A lot of people treat Epoch like a call of duty-type shooter (with all right, it is after all a sandbox game). There however are aspects that will make their lives more difficult as they will have to deal with things like "hunger", "thirst", "gathering supplies", etc. all of which makes a survival sandbox game.

 

I also believe that weapon degradation should be a part of this.