The indestructible / destructible walls debate

[Osiris72]

Posted this on the topic in the main forum, but thought I'd post it here as well.

 

I'm not sure that this is possible in Arma scripting, but what if base materials are indestructible only when members of the group that owns the jammer are not in game.   As soon as one person from that group logs in, the materials then become destructible and stay that way for a time period after the last one logs out (30 min maybe).  Bases without jammers are always destructible 

 

Now I can see that someone would be pissed that they wasted a satchel on a base in a non-destructible state, maybe there is a good way of letting someone know it's in a destructible state. (maybe prevent a satchel charge from deploying at all in a radius around the base if it is not destructible)

 

To me, it would be much more fun to invade and maybe destroy a base when there is a fight involved.....blowing bases up when no one who owns it is not in game is lame imho. 

 

I maybe missing an possible exploitation method here, but I'd hate for satchels to be rendered useless or removed as there are so many other fun as hell ways to use them in combat.

[SkyDogs]

 

Posted this on the topic in the main forum, but thought I'd post it here as well.

 

I'm not sure that this is possible in Arma scripting, but what if base materials are indestructible only when members of the group that owns the jammer are not in game.   As soon as one person from that group logs in, the materials then become destructible and stay that way for a time period after the last one logs out (30 min maybe).  Bases without jammers are always destructible 

 

 

 

 

 

In an ideal world, eh? It's cute but not without potential boredom problems. It's only a hunch, but I'd suspect players will do too much of that there guarding. Who's on guard duty? Then again, it would bring another level of stealth recon, waiting in the distance for them to go out. Yeah, sounds good.

[Nic]

Interesting suggestion and I like it. I doubt the devs will put it in, but maybe someone could make a script. 

[RangeCreeds]

Then it just becomes people finding out who owns a base, waiting around there base until they log, and the problem starts ALL over again. It cannot be fixed easily and I highly doubt it will ever be fixed. It is sadly just a part of Epoch

[Osiris72]

Well that's the part of the idea that's bothering me, how to make it where someone can't just log and instantly make the base indestructible but not give it away to other players when they do if the base stays destructible for 30 min afterwards

 

Can login / logout messages be disabled?  Other than maybe figuring out who combat logged, I don't see much use for it.   

 

Death messages...most hardcore servers turn these off and I like it, I don't really care who killed me or who I killed.    In other words lessen the ability for the attackers to gain intel outside what they see in the game world.  

 

The other issue is non-group members holding up inside, when the group members log off...but that may not be a huge issue as they can't really do anything that I can think off other than sit there after the 30 min is up.

[Brez]

It'll be interesting to see what they do.

 

 

They have to deal with glitching and duping first.

 

No point in making explosives rare if they can be duped.

No point in making cinders or building items indestructible when you can pass through them to get in/out of a base.

 

 

Lets see what they do.

 

 

 

This "logged out and base is in God mode" seems not ideal to me.

 

I see so many ways that can and will be exploited.

[aposnow]

i like this idea would need some refining! but im up for it!! nothing worse than people who cant take on a group have to wait for them to all log off to blow walls up and take loot

[Tobias Solem]

What about persistent biometric mines and traps (trigger alarms) that can be placed by base owners inside frequency jammer range, but only blow up if someone that isn't in a group steps on them? That way you can add defenses to your base. Perhaps these can also spawn some sort of soldier AI, or attract sappers or rabid ducks?

[Osiris72]

Here is the thing, it's a bad idea to make anything constantly indestructible.  There has to be a money / time sink and turnover in games like this.  They've already added the paint requirement, that gets rid of the buildings of groups that quit playing or move to a different server.

 

There has to be some type of turnover otherwise you hit the world object limit and then no one else can build.

 

Now, the question is....how do you want that turnover to occur?  Constantly looking for enough building materials to upkeep your base to keep them indestructible or would you rather engage in combat with other players when you are online? .... which do you think is more fun? 

 

Granted, guard duty is not the most fun thing in the world, but when (and it will happen) another group discovers your base....there will be battles more often.

 

To help with guard duty, I like Tobias' idea ....only not make them persistent as the other group will simply give up trying to get in.  The tripping of defensive elements should alert the group members that something is up at their base.   Maybe add a seismic sensor that can be deployed X number of meters from the jammer and can detect and alert for say a 25 meter radius

 

And / Or.....along the same lines as Tobias' AI spawning.....add the ability to purchase and place AI guards (no armament..except maybe pistols), any contact and they radio the group.  When a group member is within a certain radius, they stand down completely. (take a coffee break if you will)

 

I'm sure the devs are working hard on duping and glitching and you are right Brez, without that everything else is a moot point.

 

This is just brainstorming....many a good idea has come from a group brainstorming session :)

[Nasdero]

First of all, world limit has nothing to do with indestructible buildings, you have to maintain them, if they indestructible or not.

 

Like I wrote in the other thread, the goal is not, that nobody can break into a base or raid it. But it can't be, that somebody can destroy in seconds, what other build in days/weeks!

 

For example, there can be lock picks, craftable ladders to get over a wall (maybe also usable when there is a jammer), grappling iron, crowbar, code locks .....

 

All should be very rare.

 

It is clear, that the glitching and duping must be solved first.

[Osiris72]

Nasdero,

 

That is correct, as I said they've added the painting requirement to help with that.  I'm saying that eventually if you get enough groups who play often and have indestructible base elements you will hit the limit quicker and for longer.  Then you'll have groups who can't build enough elements for their base or at all.

 

I like the lock picks, ladders, etc idea

 

Anything that allows for different tactics to be employed therefore making combat more interesting is essential in my book.  

[Nasdero]

You can also limit the objects per player, so a lone wolf can build x objects, a group of 5 players can build 5x objects, pretty easy, isn't it? ;)

[Xyz]

You can also limit the objects per player, so a lone wolf can build x objects, a group of 5 players can build 5x objects, pretty easy, isn't it? ;)

 

or is it? how does it work? So every member of the group maintains their objects separately?

[Nasdero]

Why should it be like this? There should be a limit for a group, like I wrote 5x objects per group, if the group increae to 6 player, they will be able to build 6x objects, the objects belongs to the group, so maintain like it is now.

[SkyDogs]

What do you guys think of having a rates system?

It's not a complete anarchial society, as we have the NPC's and traders. So perhaps a weekly tax on frequency jammers must be paid or else your jammer stops jamming, jamming in the name of the Lord.

Bigger the base, higher the fee, but I think it would need to be expensive to balance right.

Of course for this to work you would need to make it a requirement that you have a jammer before being able to build.

[Xyz]

this debate is pretty pointless, there will definitely be modded servers with pve only or just indestructible bases where people can learn the game and learn building prior to moving on to real pvp servers.

[SkyDogs]

I don't think it's pointless as those reading might take on board some of the suggestions, and implement them in their own servers.

Plus, it's good to talk.

[Nic]

What do you guys think of having a rates system?

It's not a complete anarchial society, as we have the NPC's and traders. So perhaps a weekly tax on frequency jammers must be paid or else your jammer stops jamming, jamming in the name of the Lord.

Bigger the base, higher the fee, but I think it would need to be expensive to balance right.

Of course for this to work you would need to make it a requirement that you have a jammer before being able to build.

 

Would this be in addition to the maintain system? Why not just make the cost for maintenance not linear as it is now? (Maybe make it exponential?)

[Kelvar]

Or make it logarithmic?