sad day for hardcore players

[ToejaM]

On the moon front, cpc's server is daytime only - BUT the devs I believe are putting in time acceleration I think, which should be epicness! :D

 

Hardcore is great, the beauty of it is being able to hide close by to someone, in reeds, in long grass, behind a wall and not be cheated by someone looking over a wall at you..especially more prominent when someone is 50-100m away and they can look over a wall at you but even with third person there is 100% no way you can see them where they are. It makes it a level playing field!

 

I hope our hardcore server remains popular, especially when the unofficial servers are nuked :)

[DMstratz]

i know where youre coming from but its still part of the game. Nothing really wrong with it in my opinion

[ToejaM]

The thing is with third person, there are times when you can see someone and not be seen.. as opposed to first person that to see someone you must be able to be seen to.. unless of course you're using a glitch or something and while third person is fine for uber close quarters <20m.. once you get to a situation where someone is across a road, over a wall.. there is no way you know that guy is there and hes just watching you like some creeper waiting for the safest time to kill you... on a hardcore server, he would have to be an actual peeping tom ready for some metal justice!

 

I think I have the video, I'll upload it but we had a really cool situation where if it wasnt for the smoke of a vehicle, some guys would have survived.. I managed to get up close enough to lay in some grass and wait within meters of them.. soon as our guy with the big rifle said "hes moving" I dropped and waited.. safe that because I couldnt see around me.. I couldnt be seen.

 

Though the whole grass not rendering at distances is another ballgame of course.

 

Think of it like this, there are many many games that dont have third person and they are all successful.. counter strike is a prime example, a game like Arma 3 / Epoch / DayZ is just as competitive but on a longer time frame, instead of a 5 minute round it is an hour, two hours.. a day.. ect but the principle is still the same.. it is on the whole of it, a competitive shooter.. you're competing for other peoples gear!

 

People complain about camping in many games but it is a legit tactic, take CoD/BF3 or 4.. but they are not camping behind a wall watching is safety, they are exposed.. sitting behind a wall and looking unnaturally over it (for an FPS game, not talking real life) is cheesier than camping and in a game like Arma where position and being first to a point of overwatch is king.. it is the ultimate stilton.

[Shadow Moses]

You guys and your theories about FPS. Just let me say first off its a video game. So you don't have the natural field of view. I have played many fps shooters and the first person view is so unnatural. I doesn't feel like it does when you say look around a room or around out side. The 3rd person in game makes up for this for me at least. It feels constricted to me. I guess its hard to explain for me. 

[TheHermit]

Well HC Hostile 4 was the only hardcore with decent ping for me, but there are a few KOS in there. I like to avoid being KOS near spawn areas when I'm completely butt naked, but lessons learned!

 

But it wasn't true HC, I was able to set map markers, which took away all the fun! But eventually I was able to score a couple of pieces and make my way into the mainland. Unfortunately true to Epoch, I found everything I needed but pockets to carry them in :P

[ToejaM]

You guys and your theories about FPS. Just let me say first off its a video game. So you don't have the natural field of view. I have played many fps shooters and the first person view is so unnatural. I doesn't feel like it does when you say look around a room or around out side. The 3rd person in game makes up for this for me at least. It feels constricted to me. I guess its hard to explain for me. 

 

 

 

There is no way to justify third personing someone OVER a wall is a pro to accomodate for the field of view restrictions in relation to real life, this isnt real life its a game and its about fairness, it doesn't matter how you spin it.. looking around walls while standing in complete safety watching someones movement like you are some kind of clairvoyant, in a game where you can lose everything is absolute nonsense.

 

In a game like this where everything is to lose, options for removing all cheesy and cheating ways of killing people like above should be removed as a first and options that cater towards casual and bad styles of play should be a last choice.

 

Games should be fair, not easy. Lying behind a rock watching someone who cannot see you behind this rock at all, no matter how hard they try to spin their camera is completely unfair, there is nothing you can do short of actually cheating to level that playing field. There is no getting an equal weapon, teaming up with more people, running away to safety.. you are literally dead in most cases and it is a large reason why bambis in DayZ don't like being killed because 1) They have no stuff (not a reason to cry) but 2) Ontop of having no stuff they are being watched unfairly for the perfect moment for being killed.

 

The only way I will ever entertain third person, is if you cannot see players without line of sight to. There is a script for it, not sure if its in this thread but it doesnt work through fences and objects with gaps in.

 

Additionally ontop of the field of view thing, most people only move around in third person they conduct their attacks in first person other than a reaction fire or extreme close quarters, in this instance the FOV complaint is moot.

 

FOV Third person

 

FOV First person

 

As you can see there is very little change in the actual field of view difference, except you can now somehow see behind you and you can look over walls and around corners, magic! Its only prominent at super close range.. anything after 20m and its negligible at best.

 

You can also adjust the FOV using:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?156973-Utility-Arma-FOV-Changer

 

Most people tend to favour 80-90, personally I prefer 90 in most games as anymore tends to fisheye the view too much for me, there are some games I have to settle for 85 though.

[Tobias Solem]

I completely agree with ToejaM, but I have come to accept the fact that people do not want to play "fair", they want to play comfortable. That's why every first person server DayZero ran had trouble populating (in spite of that mods hardcore nature) and that's why we at most struggled to get 7 players daily on our Epoch server (and hence shut it down).

As a gamer I very much dislike the fact that some players have it as a playstyle to lie around completely hidden from any view, but still are able to get a perfect perspective around them without taking any risks. As a game designer I would call it an imbalanced mechanic in a multiplayer game.

[ToejaM]

Yeah I know people like it but its majorly for the wrong reasons, its a crutch that should never have existed and had DayZ been made in a different mod.. I doubt we'd be having this conversation. I'd also say its why games like WarZ and Nether ect don't do well (aside from their many other flaws I'd still count no third person in those games as a big reason) and I again, blame this on DayZ Mod shipping with third person.

 

I'm a competitive player and I want my deaths to be the result of 1) My own fault and bad play or 2) Being out played by better players.. not 3) Killed by peeping tom who can never be seen and profits off a mechanic which should never be in a game like this.

 

I will always have a hardcore server up and I have a strong view on it.. I hope other hardcore players share my view, I just hope that there are enough to go around to populate the hardcore servers!

[Kilneck]

The FP Vs 3rd Person debate has been going on for years.  Personally, I prefer first person but I appreciate everyone has their own preferences.  

 

For me, so long as there are servers for both available then I'll be content.  I don't really see 3rd person as an 'exploit' as such - everyone on the server is playing to the same rules.  However it does drastically change the way the game is played and I think it tends to spoil it somewhat.

 

You can't beat that shit-your-pants feeling when you're on an HC server in a town at night and you hear a gunshot close by... there's none of that hiding behind a wall and scanning your surroundings.  You actually have to have a proper look and risk losing your head. (Which for me adds massively to the experience) :D  

[Shadow Moses]

Like I said earlier in this thread or another thread this is a debate that we will never see eye to eye on. You guys makes some good points. As for you two pictures there is a great deal of difference for me. You guys want to say its not fair that in PVP. That maybe true for you but I don't play this game or any other game for the PVP. The PVP is a side affect of the game for me. I would be happy killing NPC and building a base. If I wanted PVP I would go play Battlefield or COD. Its not a death match its a survival game. Yes sometimes I have to shoot an asshat or two. But 9 times out of 10 they attack me first or one of my team members. And when I have to to engage in PVP its thru the scope on the rifle. I don't shoot from 3rd person thats just a good way to miss and die. I am sorry that some of you see this as cheating. To me this has always been a 3rd person game. It was never a FPS. I have been playing this game engine since the days of operation flashpoint and it has always been a 3rd person game to me. Its not a cheat or exploit like you HC guys like to claim. Its in the game by design. Its there for a purpose. Some of you should really look up the definition of exploit. This is the last I will say on the subject. Because like I said before its highly unlikely you will change my mind or yours. 

[ToejaM]

First Person

 

Third Person

 

First Person - Double Tap NUMPAD MINUS (-)

 

I completely forgot about numpad minus, FOV issue fixed ;)