ARMA 3 PVE - A suggestion thread

[Poncho]

So I have heard multiple people talking about how ARMA 3 will not have zombies anymore, this concept excites some people, and concerns many others.

 

I for one am all for no zombies in the ARMA 3 version, and can entirely understand why it would be better to remove them but I still think some variant of PVE is necessary in/around most loot spawning areas. Here are my reasons:

 

PVE is something that results in bringing players together, whether that be for special loot drops or Co-op looting runs it makes the game more exiting and fundamentally it is gameplay, removing it would lessen the experience in my mind.

 

Secondly there are a lot of players out there, with many different play styles, some people want nothing but PVP, others enjoy PVE content more, some/most a mixture of the two.

 

Thirdly, and this one really depends on server player limits, but the map areas are usually quite large on ARMA 3. Players could easily avoid others on purpose or by accident, forcing player interaction (In epoch's case, mainly by fighting over resources) is needed and again is great gameplay. A gunshot sounds in the distance and surrounding players move to investigate. A gunshot that without any PVE contact may not have been fired in the first place, that and it makes the supplies/loot more difficult to obtain if there is an absence of player activity in the area .

 

I love the thrill of the hunt, or of being hunted, or even just spontaneous and sudden player contact. Where two players meet and the question pops up immediately, friend or foe? I also however really enjoy just chilling out by going with a but tonne of ammo and shredding down the zeds for resources or even just for a laugh.

 

 

So okay, there are no zombies. So what could there be?

Well I would love to see AI, maybe three factions:

- Bandits.

- Military.

- Scavengers.

 

 

- Bandits made up of ex-military, survivors, anyone who wants to take their supplies by force instead of searching for them themselves. These guys will   shoot anything that moves and leave nothing to waste, not even the meat on your bones. I'm talking real sadistic bastards here. Holed up in bandit

  holdouts, rickety looking structures, usually loosely fortified villages or parts of town using rusted metal, wooden planks, burnt out cars, anything to

  hand. Decorated with the classic 'KEEP OUT' and other graffiti roughly spray painted over any place that allow it. Some may be seen on small patrols

  searching for their next victim

         

  AI Mechanic:  - Shoots all players

                                - Dynamic / intermittently spawning "Holdouts" (Bandit style fortified villages) For players to assault for their supplies.

                                - Dynamically spawning Bandit AI wandering the map out for blood.

 

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- Military, soldiers stranded on the Island (map) by whatever caused the apocalypse. Perhaps trying to rebuild law and order to some degree. These

  guys are usually friendly although they are highly cautious. Towns under their control will have traders in selling military grade weaponry and

  ammunition, as well as clothing and importantly - high grade medical supplies.  

            There could also be a Bounty Hunters Office of sorts, a 'Sheriff' in each major Military town who could offer a contract to

  players. When accepted a mission would pop up on the map of the player who initiated the contract, after this time there could be a 5 minute timer to

  allow for friends to join the contract, with a maximum number of participants based on the size of the mission (Reward split between the participants -

  less players means a greater share for yourself) Once a contract is full / the timer runs out the Sheriff will simply announce 'A contract is already

  underway' to anyone else who tried to take a new one during the current missions progress to prevent too many missions spawning in. Timers would

  be in place for each mission, maybe 1 hour for completion, 30 minutes to claim the reward. You can fill in the blanks yourself but you get the idea.

           Set up in military style fortifications, steel and sandbags. Effective and efficient barriers. Their forts are clean cut, basically everything you would   expect from such a setup. Some smaller groups may be seen patrolling the surrounding areas.

     

  AI Mechanic:  -  Opens fire on any player who raises their weapon within a set proximity if not lowered within 5 seconds after a verbal command by

                                  the AI - "LOWER YOUR WEAPON!".

                              -  Static / Permanent Fortifications / Fortified towns (Equivalent of trader zones in the ARMA 2 version)

                              -  Traders Selling Military Apparel, Weaponry and Ammunition as well as High grade Medical Items.

                              -  Sheriff's Office offering contracts (Player Triggered PVE Missions) 

 

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- Scavengers, these hardy and nomadic people wander the map in search of anything of use. Either on their own or in small group, some times even

   setting up a small shop in certain random locations, they may be traded with weather they are out scavenging or at a static location.

       For now lets split them up into wandering and static scavengers.

                - Wandering scavengers, following a predefined path from point to point (town to town for example) they offer their wares along the way, but

                  only have a limited stock, if you buy everything they may replenish their stocks after a set amount of time at their next point (or town) as if

                  they have actually scavenged it during their stay. They are very temperamental, and will also fire upon a player if they have their weapon

                  raised, although their verbal commands are spoken with less authority than the military - "Come on now friend, lower your weapon", or

                  "Don't do anything stupid there friend" If killed they will drop their whatever it is they were selling at the time. These wandering traders

                   stocks could vary depending on where it is they are looting and they may have some rarer items available.

                - Static scavengers, dynamically spawning in a small group of scavengers they set up a small loosely fortified encampments with tents and                        sell their wares from it, with a few of them making the trades and the rest guarding the area. Again hostile to anyone with a raised weapon.                    They sell a large amount of assorted items such as civilian/wasteland clothing, weaponry, base building items, ammunition, more common

                   medical supplies and there is lootable chest/crate in the camp that you may try to steal from, anyone trying to steal from this will be fired                        upon immediately but having it gives a reason to assault the encampment. 

 

 AI Mechanic:  - Lone or small groups of wandering scavengers (traders) patrol the map for a chance to pick up some interesting items, for a decent 

                           price. Hostile to any player with a raised weapon (as mention with a warning).

                        -  Small Trade Encampments dynamically/intermittently spawning around allowing for supplies items to be bought / sold. 

                        -  Possibly of escort contracts for wandering traders? A fee payed for the safe escort of the wandering scavengers to their next point,

                           the fee depending on how many you got to the next point alive.

        

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As I have stated the AI is hostile to players with weapons raised, this is as an alternative to the current system of humanity. An additional or alternate means for AI to determine friend from foe would be to put in a faction system. Working differently for each faction as shown below:

 

Bandits: 

- They hate everyone and just want you gear, so no system is necessary 

 

Military:

- Completing contracts for them will increase your standing with them, the value depending on the size of the mission, perhaps from +20/+40/+50

- Killing Bandits also increase your status as a lawman with the military so each Bandit kill = +10

- Killing Military AI will increase you notoriety with the Military, so each Militarily Kill =  -10

- The Military are connected everywhere, no bad deed goes unpunished so each Scavenger kill = -10

 

Scavenger

- They care little for the quarrels of others, just their own lives. They are unaffected by Bandit or Military Kills

- They do however take offense to people killing innocent scavengers so each scavenger kill = -20

- Increasing your standing with the scavengers by completing escort contract awards = +20

 

A total of - 100 could mean that that faction is directly hostile to you, where as + 100 means they are more accepting, perhaps opening up more trade options.

This should also be reset upon death, the death of your character meaning the death of your relations,  meaning you are not punished for your past lives nor gifted higher standing from fresh spawning.

 

This could all be displayed in a social menu, if any of you have played ARMA 3 Wasteland you might have seen an option to press the tilde key (¬) This allows you to see players on the server and invite players to your squad (a great addition for Epoch I might add), different sections are divided by use of tabs within this menu, having them in your squad allows you to see each other on the map as well as commune in a squad chat. This could also have a tab for factions allowing you to see your current standing with each faction. 

 

I like the idea of these systems as you are not punished by the game or its traders for you interaction with players, but instead with the traders themselves, which makes far more sense. Trader zones are more realistic because you are not magically protected from a clip to the face by a safezone, but by the AI in and around the camps/holdouts/forts themselves. Again the systems I have suggested are ONLY suggestions, they are in no doubt in need of major tweaking. The feasibility and practicality of some may not suit the ARMA 3 Engine so much but I just liked this concept and thought I would put it to you. Let me know what you think, and here is a poll to voice your opinions in the role of PVE in ARMA 3 Epoch.  

[veeshan]

Whatever the case, I would like to see some greater PVE support in any ARMA 3 mod.

[Radiix]

If you want to play PVE you should consider playing world of warcraft.

imo

[veeshan]

I do play WoW. I like Dayz Epoch PVE. Thus, I would like Amra3 Epoch to have more PVE support. No one is forcing you to play PVE, so why do you care?

[Poncho]

Never been a fan of WoW I prefer Guild wars to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what your post is Radiix. An attempted off hand insult at people who play games such as world of warcraft? Because obviously it is totally acceptable for you to play dayz but anyone who plays WoW is a geek... I enjoy PVE in any Multiplayer game, it adds to the experience and offers more gameplay. This is a suggestion thread, in a discussion section on the forums. Please try to keep it constructive, thanks.

[Radiix]

Never been a fan of WoW I prefer Guild wars to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what your post is Radiix. An attempted off hand insult at people who play games such as world of warcraft? Because obviously it is totally acceptable for you to play dayz but anyone who plays WoW is a geek... I enjoy PVE in any Multiplayer game, it adds to the experience and offers more gameplay. This is a suggestion thread, in a discussion section on the forums. Please try to keep it constructive, thanks.

Its not an insult in anyway.

 

I posted it because turning an 3rd person "military simulation" into a pve game is not possible.

 

Of course you can add some zombies, aliens or whatever to fight against, but why would you reinvent the wheel?

[veeshan]

The PVE server I'm on does a fine job of turning it into an engaging PVE game. AI /w smaws/stingers so you can't just roll them all over. Paratrooper AI that will randomly spawn and parachute in while you are doing missions. AI helis. Etc. My thoughts are it would be nice if the mod was flexible enough to offer more PVE support.

[Poncho]

Ah okay Radiix, I misinterpreted, my bad. I have ran into a good few people in dayz that spew out that sort of stuff as an insult, I suppose that comes with bringing the COD generation into what is technically an MMO without them even being aware of the change. Something that made dayz so popular and easy to get into, yet so frustrating when servers don't have well moderated side chat XD

 

And please don't get me wrong I am not trying to turn in into a PVE game, far from it. I just believe as do many others that AI not only has a place, but is needed to ensure that there is always gameplay out there, which in a game where you have to make your own, becomes very difficult with the lack of an ever present and common enemy.

[Poncho]

Haha! I would love to see animal mobs though, Savage dogs and any other native animals, even things like cats, although not a threat it is still a food source. I would love to see the survival get a bit more difficult. Food and drink more expensive and harder to find, but easier to harvest. Make people work for their winter stores a little more ;)

[Sli]

It would be a shame to drop the zombie concept, but I can see why this has been put out there as it would help to keep the mod distinct from DayZ.

 

If zombies do indeed get dropped you would have to consider an alternative 'apocalypse narrative'  that helps to support the fruition of the factions you want as replacements.

 

The three factions you described above do sound good. I think scavengers should be less human to position them more distinctly from the other two. In my opinion a scavenger is a person who will go to any lengths to get what they need (including cannibalism if they are hungry enough). They need to be unrelenting, unpredictable and non-negotiable.

[FFDP]

I voted for AI units, as in bandits, military etc, however I do want zombies as well.

I hope that Epoch A3 will have a built in customization for AI. As in the best attributes of the various AI scripts out.

With customization options, server owners have choices to enable, disable and setup to their choosing.

PvP with no NPC elements is just too boring, as Stratis and Altis are big maps. Altis more so than Stratis.

[Poncho]

Agree with you on the customization aspect FFDP, and glad to see we are on the same page about the need for AI. I'm not sure if they will be keeping zombies and a need to fill the requirement for distancing themselves from dayz. Like I said I wont be too sad to see them go, there is always DayZ SA for that, which I will also be playing regularly. Personally I have stopped comparing Epoch with DayZ, they are now, and especially with the coming of Epoch A3, very different games.

[Poncho]

Slightly better variant? Wasteland is not ongoing, you log out, you start fresh when you log back in. That and you just drag around pre-existing objects to build. Epoch no doubt will have an actual building system again. Then then there is the difference in traders e.t.c.

 

I love the zombies, the amount of movies, games and other media I have involving them (bordering on obsessive) proves that xD There is however a game with far better zombies than Epoch A3 could achieve, built on a base of a new (or midpoint) engine, called DayZ. This thread was to discuss alternates, or defend the place of the original zombies. 

 

If you want to see zombies through in a vote for them at the above poll, it is not me who has suggested removing zombies, this post was made in reaction to that suggestion. Maybe put in a bit more detail about why you want them to be kept in, and how you think they benefit the mod and its gameplay?

[Poncho]

you havent played on the wasteland mod servers so far...did you? B)

 

they are also saving the progress of your game...

 

 

and i didnt say that i wouldnt play it (epoch a3) if its only slightly better than wasteland... ^^

 

:o  I had played but only at the start. Been at Sea for a while now so missed out on a lot, like the release of DayZ Alpha, got 5 more weeks 'til I'm back too  :blink: Just getting exited over all the screenshots haha. I will have to give wasteland a try when I'm back for sure! Maybe you can show me the ropes  ;)

 

I'm just looking forward to Epoch get to a stage in their development to where they commit to a degree that they are able to go public with more information on intended map, features, gameplay and mechanics.

[Creep]

Would love to have both Zeds or anything like that to keep the apocalypse, but I think AI shouldnt be only military

I would prefer to have the main part of AI like Survivors, killing Zeds with everything they have

As soon as you have AI can move around everywhere, they will attack less armored guys with some super heavy loot, then its the choice of them to die or if the AI dies the less armed play (that was less armed for a reason) will get heavy armored in an area where this type of loot isnt even giving

 

Military AI is like to get you totally underpowered or totally overpowered, unless they are matching their loot to the area they are at

[Bambit]

For me PVE version. For one, AI is programmed to behave in one way or another. AI bandits are meant to be bandits and don't get a boner each time they KoS a player or camp somewhere being all trigger happy. Secondly AI don't insult you if you track them down and chop them down with a hatchet. I've met too many assholes in this game to enjoy anything but PVE. When I want some PVP I play Wasteland mod or BF4.
Multiplayer games have too many trolls and assholes that spoil the game for normal users.
It should be up to the server owners/hosts what kind of gameplay they prefer.

[Radiix]

When u want to add in AI, please make them HARD!

 

Right now, the AI gets more dumber the more player join the server. I think its related to the server fps since all the calculation is done serverside right?

What about a headless client? I wouldn't mind to buy a second copy of the game/mod/whatever just to have fluent AI that behave like real players.

 

Because right now, AI is freeloot when the Server is full.

[Poncho]

I completely agree Radiix headless client seems to be the way to go.

[Sequisha]

I posted it because turning an 3rd person "military simulation" into a pve game is not possible.

I'm a heavy PVPer all day every day, in every game imaginable, but you're wrong.

We've drawn up numerous ways to offer PVE routes and still keep it interesting.  ONLY PVE? Yeah, there are very few games that do that successfully for long.

But an attractive PVE scenario is quite possible.

[Mercules]

So some comment from Sequisha in another thread got me to thinking. We can have non-standard AI for the Epoch mod. it doesn't have to be similar to wasteland survival or viral zeds or bandits. A survival game could realistically use nearly any PVE element to make that survival aspect come to life. In fact Epoch could go towards a more fantasy route. There are many examples of genre mashups that work well. For an example approaching DayZ we have Terry Brooks latest series of books. His Sword of Shannara is set in a world that is very much fantasy but very often hints at an ancient technological world similar to our own. Word and the Void series shows that the "old world" was indeed ours as does Genises of Shannara series. 

Shadowrun, a very popular role-playing game was very similar.

 

 

So my idea is that all the myths and legends we have are in some part true. They are based off ideas that come from when the mythical was ascendant. Something happened and the mythical faded into the background. It was still there but it was ghost stories, legends, and such. Whatever happened in the past to reduce that is now happening in the opposite way. The mythical is becoming truth right along technology and science. What we end up with is literally thousands of possible AI threats. 

The main issue is going to be how to add those in within the framework of ARMA. Walking Dead can use the same frame as a human with a different skin, as can "ghosts" and such. There are dozens of "humanoid" mythical creatures that can be a skin change and some new animations. For example, if we simply went with something like "Possessed Humans" they might still use guns and other weapons as well as normal gear, but they can be faster and more resilient to damage than a normal human making them a serious threat. A quick skin change and some dynamic lighting could really make them stand out.

With that our protagonists can end up with both civilian and military guns as well as something mystical. Crafting can include alchemical recipes that improve the features of guns/vehicles. Who doesn't want a change to create Dragonfire Rounds that blaze with fire and this could be a skin change to tracer rounds. It opens up a lot of ways to use the mundane items/models with a twist and come up with a very different concept from ARMA III itself while still using it's core.

[Bambit]

I have just come up with THE IDEA on how to make Epoch PVE without getting rid of PVP :D
Of course the whole idea is possible if it can be turned into a script.

So my idea is to make PVP not as deadly as it is now. It will preserve the whole hero/bandit/survivor side of the game while getting rid of the annoyance of getting killed.
Some of you may not be that happy about it but bare with me.

If you shoot a player, instead of killing him, het gets knocked out for 90 seconds. As a result you loose humanity points for knocking out a player. And after that you can:

   a) loot his gear (you'll loose some more humanity points).

   b) use epi on him to revive him (you get 90% of the humanity points that you lost)

   c) loot his gear and then revive him (you loose humanity points for stealing but also get humanity for reviving him)

   d) or anything else you fancy

 

So devs would have to add another feature that'd be called 'endurance points', and it would work like health.

 

If you get into PVP shoot-out, each time a player hits you, you loose endurance points instead of health points untill you get knocked out.
If AI or Zombies/other creatures hit you, you loose normal health points until you die.

 

I realise there are plenty of players who play the game only for the sake of killing others, but there are even more players who just play for the sake of enjoying the game, without having to deal with assholes.

I am such player. I like to explore, find loot, hang out in goofy places and meet neutral players. I hate getting KoS by some overambitious wannabe-bandits. I never run around in the open, mostly sneak and hide in bushes, but there's always someone 'better' who KoSs me instead of making me surrender or something.

 

Anyway,

It would have to be decided how much could one loot after knocking out a player. Either everything or everything except toolbelt and car keys. Idk.

 

It would be a nice compromise between PVP and PVE, imo.

 

Lemme know what you think
 

[McKeighan]

Here's my thoughts.


The map you play on should tell a story.  

I would love to see a map that gives you the best of both worlds.   "HUMAN" AI in one area, mostly all bandit based, but some military based.... all this AI can (and will) shoot at you if you look at them funny. It would make going into towns and running around out in the open a sense of "man that was risky".

Then, have a breakout area, where there's a large wall, or maybe a barrier of water seperating the 2 areas, where there exhists a STUPID amount of zombies. Maybe that is where your better military loot is, being guarded by hundreds of army reserve zombies who have succumb to the outbreak.  Going in there would be high risk, due to the sheer numbers of zombies.

Then, I'd mix them.  Every so often, a team of the AI decide it's a good idea to take a look see at the old base, and create a situation. Maybe they die to the zombies, maybe they wipe out the zombies... maybe you get caught in the crossfire. Who knows.

[adrianna]

What i would love to see is that players help each other, not kill on sight.

 

Some ideas i have:

 

AI Classes:

- Zombies (normal speed but huge count)

- infected animals like dogs, wolfes (extreme fast movement)

- special infected (like burer in Stalker)

- Ai units

 

deadly environment:

- anomalies

- emps/blowouts

- radioactive zones (for all you should need special equipment to enter the area)

 

rare items:

- cars/helis should need much more parts to repair

 

weapons:

- NO silenced weapons (every shot should have an impact on environment (calling AI/zombies/players)

- upgradeable weapons

[McKeighan]

I like where adrianna headed with that post.

i would prefer the only way to get a silenced weapon would be to loot a silencer from a military area on a very small % chance, and/or have to build one on your own that malfunctions (only get so many uses before it breaks).

[airtonix]

Eh, if it aint undead then it aint a zombie... it's just a person high on bath salts.

 

I really like @ponchos idea, merge ideas from Fallout 3, Stalker and Shadowrun

 

• bring in factions
  • have them provide missions to players with enough reputation for that faction
  • faction npcs are hostile to players below a midrange level of reputation, no missions for those below this
  • faction npcs are cautious to players above a midrange and below a high range level of repution, missions provided to increase reputation, but they reduce reputation (by the nature of the mission) with other factions
  • faction nps are friendly to players above a high level of reputation, provide missions that reward special currency and reputation
  • faction nps come to the aid of players with an exceptional level of reputation (at the cost of that reputation)
• Addiontal faction ideas:
  • The ones @poncho mentioned, except they have sub factions who while are affected by your reputation with that faction, also track your reputation with themselves.
    Essentially each section of society, but have a group(or two) that represents each of the nine levels of alignment in RPG (like this example)
    • Military
      • Lawmakers, Paladin Archetype, "We can make this work!"
      • Newly arrived, Qaurintine "Purge them all, for the greater good" type
      • Section 6, "We experiment for lulz"
    • Bandits
      • Leave our lands, we make our own law!
      • I'm surviving, I'm coming out on top, you're in my way.
      • Kill em all, let blood run and rivers turn red!
    • Survivors
      • Would you like to trade?
      • ???
• Refine base building:
  • bring this guy on board: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?160331-Modular-Construction-Mod-by-NerdMod
  • Or make Snap building a default part of the mod
• Have varying environmental zones:
  • like @adrianna mentioned (radiation, electrical storms)
  • Make weather dynamic
• If you bring in some mythical creatures:
  • vary their existence based on current weather or time of day
  • please don't make them sprint all the time... that's just the "poor mans" way of making something hard.