On the topic of scoped MGs

[Cobalt]

I don't know how far this will go with the new patch in the testing stages, but I'd like to make a few suggestions regarding weapons. First and foremost - scoped machine guns. Up until this patch there was only the PKP. This gun really has no place in DayZ. It is a high damage gun with a high rate of fire, high ammo count and to add to it a scope with zeroing capabilities. It outshines every sniper rifle in the game and is generally regarded as OP by even its most devout users. With the addition of the scoped M249 in the next patch I think this is something that should be analyzed, scrutinized, and should these weapons remain in game, justified. In my honest opinion, scoped machine guns have no place in DayZ.

ARMA has a large range of variation for almost all the guns it offers. The fix for this is simple, replace the infamous PKP with the PKM. It is the same gun, does the same damage, uses the same round yet only offers iron sights as opposed to a telescopic scope. Instead of addition the Scoped M249, add the L110A1. It is basically the british m249 that offers a red dot sight instead of iron sights. That being said - think the addition of the RPK-74 and the MG36 are great, but we can do with out the scoped m240, scoped m249 and the M8 SAW. 

[Randodom]

M8 SAW. 

 

Not gonna comment on anything else atm,

M8 SAW is almost the same as M8 sharpshooter so I dont think its "OP" in any way.

It does spawn with the MG 36 mags, but if you find a M8 sharpshooter and a MG 36 / MG 36 camo, you can have the "same" weapon that way.

[Mercules]

It outshines every sniper rifle in the game and is generally regarded as OP by even its most devout users. 

 

This is not true. It zeros and is mostly accurate but even the simple SVD, CZ550, M24 are easier to hit people with. The Lapua is so much better. The "high rate of fire" is a trap since it is nearly impossible to  hit anything with more than one bullet firing even twice unless you are standing 10 meters away from it at which point the scope is useless and unless you play on a server with crosshairs you are basically doing a "Spray and Pray". Huge recoil! I've used it on overwatch for a team and found that I was having to take more shots which gives a higher chance of my position being found. The ONLY reason I was using it was because it was the only long ranged weapon we had found at that point that could be used with NVGs and it was night. 

[Falkner]

Why should scoped machine guns have no place in DayZ ??

 

The pkp has a lower dmg than the Lapua. It's not a 1-shot weapon and the recoil make an instant 2nd hit quite hard. Not to mention that the zoom of the scope is limeted. Even a DMR can be the better choice in some situations. So the pkp is far from beeing op. Its a good choice but not op. And in a confrontation with a mounted M2, really nobody would say the PKP is ahead ..

 

Of course there is absolutly no problem with the m249 scoped or with the M8 saw. The m240 scope will fit well too, so no need to change anything there. Only thing I agree with Cobalt is that the L110A1 can be added :D (but additional and not as replacement)

[Cobalt]

Okay so its apparent you guys aren't familiar with how LMGs work in ARMA II because if you were you would know how completely irrelevant accuracy is when it came to them. LMGs are not standing weapons in this game, the only reason you should ever fire from positions other than prone are

 

1: desperation/emergency fire.

Or

2: You can't see over the wall/surface.

 

But even in these instances, Scoped LMGs are equivalent to DMR, MK11, Dragnov etc in keeping targets on scope if you're using semi-automatic firing.
In fact, I've heard this retort so much that I've made a VIDEO of the PKP showing just how easy it is to keep those rounds going where you want them to.
"Not being able to hit more than one round accurately" while scoped with these weapons is a product of the user's own inability to reacquire targets effectively (which is sad given one hit from a PKP center mass, that is to say the largest part of the body, is a knock-out) or their ignorance to how these weapons are used - while prone. 

The power of these weapons in DayZ is pretty much unmatched. The ability to send accurate, heavy, deadly fire downrange from a distance usually reserved for sniper rifles or DMRs is too much - using the unscoped versions of these weapons balances it out.
 

[FFDP]

I like my scoped lmg's.

[Mercules]

Okay so its apparent you guys aren't familiar with how LMGs work in ARMA II because if you were you would know how completely irrelevant accuracy is when it came to them. LMGs are not standing weapons in this game, the only reason you should ever fire from positions other than prone are

 

1: desperation/emergency fire.

Or

2: You can't see over the wall/surface.

 

But even in these instances, Scoped LMGs are equivalent to DMR, MK11, Dragnov etc in keeping targets on scope if you're using semi-automatic firing.

In fact, I've heard this retort so much that I've made a VIDEO of the PKP showing just how easy it is to keep those rounds going where you want them to.

"Not being able to hit more than one round accurately" while scoped with these weapons is a product of the user's own inability to reacquire targets effectively (which is sad given one hit from a PKP center mass, that is to say the largest part of the body, is a knock-out) or their ignorance to how these weapons are used - while prone. 

The power of these weapons in DayZ is pretty much unmatched. The ability to send accurate, heavy, deadly fire downrange from a distance usually reserved for sniper rifles or DMRs is too much - using the unscoped versions of these weapons balances it out.

 

 

Cool Story Bro. Especially where you can hit a TREE at 300 meters.

Didja know that laying in the open where you can fire prone is a sure way to die? Didja know that simple grass obscures your view while prone? Didja know that without being prone(which in the majority of firefights you will not be prone but probably crouched) you can fire once then have to reacquire the target which will take longer than it does with most Sniper Rifles? Didja know that the scope isn't all that zoomed in and I would have a much easier time putting a shot on you with an M24 much less a Lapua?

 

Yes, at those short ranges the PKP has an advantage... almost like it was made to be fired from prone at those ranges... Oh wait it was. At 800m the favor swings to weapons with better optics. 

[cid]

I have to agree that the pkp is in fact not that op. The pkp like the MK48 is a way for ground troops to defend against vehicles like the humvee with a M2 50.cal MG. 

[Randodom]

Also, the MGs have tracers... dont forget that. If the shooter is over 500m from you and doesnt hit you... after some shots you know exactly where they are even without using a scope.

[Cobalt]

Cool Story Bro. Especially where you can hit a TREE at 300 meters.

Didja know that laying in the open where you can fire prone is a sure way to die? Didja know that simple grass obscures your view while prone? Didja know that without being prone(which in the majority of firefights you will not be prone but probably crouched) you can fire once then have to reacquire the target which will take longer than it does with most Sniper Rifles? Didja know that the scope isn't all that zoomed in and I would have a much easier time putting a shot on you with an M24 much less a Lapua?

 

Yes, at those short ranges the PKP has an advantage... almost like it was made to be fired from prone at those ranges... Oh wait it was. At 800m the favor swings to weapons with better optics. 

You're pretty witty with your comebacks, its too bad most of them don't hold any ground.

I made that video to show how easy it is to control the PKP. Thats it. 

- Didja know you dont have to be out in the open to go prone?

- Didja know not all terrain has grass and most grassy terrain is uneven allowing you to law prone obscured? 

* Didja also know that some servers have grass turned off?

- Didja know what you said is completely bullshit as most sniper rifles in the game have a break in refire to simulate pulling the bolt back and reacquiring targets with scoped LMGs is no more slower than reacquiring targets with a DMR?

- Didja know that the PKP Zoom is the same as the PSO/ACOG scopes on the AK-107, M16, L85 and SVD?

At short range, the PKP zooms too far for it to be effective. If you're familiar with hip fire in ARMA or play on a server with crosshairs you're in luck. At 800m the PKP has just as much of a chance as any other scoped weapon. The PKP owns the mid range game.

Thanks for playing.

[Cobalt]

I have to agree that the pkp is in fact not that op. The pkp like the MK48 is a way for ground troops to defend against vehicles like the humvee with a M2 50.cal MG. 

Thats the thing though PKP is the PKM with a scope, they are the same gun and have the same punch. When it comes to vehicles you're spraying anyway - its BETTER to have a wide fov.

As to your tracer comment, it doesn't matter - if anyone has a beat on you with a scoped weapon at 500m its pretty much game over unless they're terrible. The PKP makes terrible people a threat because they have a 100 roudns to spray accurately down range. Even if you knew were they were shooting you from you'd have to either have engage and hope you shots hit through suppression/injury or run for cover and hope you dont get hit in the legs or upper body.

[Randodom]

As to your tracer comment, it doesn't matter - if anyone has a beat on you with a scoped weapon at 500m its pretty much game over unless they're terrible. The PKP makes terrible people a threat because they have a 100 roudns to spray accurately down range. Even if you knew were they were shooting you from you'd have to either have engage and hope you shots hit through suppression/injury or run for cover and hope you dont get hit in the legs or upper body.

 

PKP is not accurate at 500m even when firing 1 shot

[Firefly]

PKP is not accurate at 500m even when firing 1 shot

 

I disagree when prone any weapon with a bipod is very accurate. The PKP is good out to 700m, the downside is the lack of magnification on the scope. When I played Origins in a squad we would have DMR's and one person with a PKP. I could usually hit targets easier with the PKP. 

 

When prone the standard M249 will shred anything on full auto, 200 rounds per box or 100 if using Beta C's. 

 

Weapons need to placed in context with gameplay and the fact is most kills are attributed to sudden encounters usually in built up areas at very close ranges which is why I don't think scoped LMG's make a huge difference. Personally I've been harassing them for the M249 scoped for a while now and the reason is it makes an excellent support weapon and it is also quiet enough to use for daily zombie clearance. 

[Falkner]

Okay so its apparent you guys aren't familiar with how LMGs work in ARMA II

 

It sounds like you aren't familiar with DayZ Epoch Gameplay .. Your described situations does not really fit to the normal Epoch encounters ..

 

- Didja know not all terrain has grass and most grassy terrain is uneven allowing you to law prone obscured? 

* Didja also know that some servers have grass turned off?

- Didja know what you said is completely bullshit as most sniper rifles in the game have a break in refire to simulate pulling the bolt back and reacquiring targets with scoped LMGs is no more slower than reacquiring targets with a DMR?

- Didja know that the PKP Zoom is the same as the PSO/ACOG scopes on the AK-107, M16, L85 and SVD?

- Not all terrain has grass, but most do. Sometimes its not blocking, but most of the time it is AND EVEN in your Video it does. So its a clear disadvantage if u always need to get prone.

* You are talking about balancing and now server have grass turned off? Most do not, so thats quit irrelevant.

- You're just wrong. It's way more easier to reacquire tagets with a DMR than a PKP (when we talk about same stance of course ..)

- Thought we're talking about sniper rifles and now you compare with AK107, M16 and L85? SVD has a relativly week scope for a sniper rifle. Every other sniper (M24, DMR, Lapua, AS50, M110) have superior scopes.

 

 

When it comes to vehicles you're spraying anyway - its BETTER to have a wide fov.

As to your tracer comment, it doesn't matter - if anyone has a beat on you with a scoped weapon at 500m its pretty much game over unless they're terrible.

Against vehicle you better aim off the crew. Spraying will most probably result in ur death.

The tracer comment does matter. At most fights in epoch there are more than just 2 ppl involved. So it's a heavy disadventage that the tracer reveals your position even if you got the first kill.

 

 

But all this discussion just shows one thing clearly to me. Scoped LMGs are not op! They can be good, but what is the problem with a weapon to be sometimes a good choice???