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Tools Break constantly, doesn't reflect anything other than making work for the player.

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The title kind of says it all.


I went to take down my plot pole I had down to help a new comer build his starting base, and my crowbar broke.

I borrowed a crowbar, and it promptly broke. Borrowed another one, and then my toolbox broke.


All within the matter of 10 minutes or so 3 tool-belt items broke on use.


Ok, so I can understand some of the weakness of things like a stick fence, and I can tolerate that the corrugated fence can be also knocked over by a solid butterfly fart (which is terribly unrealistic as those posts would be sunk the ground, unless you're going 40-60mph in a non-fiberglass framed car, those posts won't really go anywhere, the metal sheeting will bend and torque and fly off, or tear. I've seen many a car wreck. Most cars crush themselves on impact which is by design.) But a crowbar breaking is silly. Why do I say this? Well my first real work some 25 years ago was construction. Guess what;

I still have all of my tools and they all work great.


I think I have 1 screwdriver that has a messed up tip because I used it for something else other than screws.

I have destroyed many a building and giant factory-sized ovens (all made out of steel and aluminum) with these tools. They all still work just fine like champs. My framing hammer's nail claws (on the head, not the claw part) have all worn off, but other than that it's still a great hammer. Even the rubber padding on the handle is still there and not degraded.


My point is I think the idea has kinda gotten out of hand with the whole degrading/destroying of things.


I can understand an entrenching tool (even though most military items are tougher than their civilian counter-parts) coming apart at it's joint.

I can understand;

Running out of matches.

Snapping a knife blade in half by using it to wedge wood or metal instead of cutting things. Or it being too dull to use and require sharpening.

Having a hatchet head fall off of its handle after prolonged use, which means you just cram some slivers of wood in it and hammer a nail in the middle, or replace the handle.

Having a toolbox with actual tools inside of it, but my toolboxes are also 20+ years old and work great, latches still lock.

Breaking a watch or compass, as these have small working parts and can easily be broken.


I would rather see implementation of specific tools like;





Drill (even a hand-cranked one)


Shovel (sturdier version of an entrenching tool)



I just think it would add more flavor and interest to folks, than being forced to halt working on your little home to search the world and brave the enemies to replace something because they break too often.

So honestly I think there should only be a few tools that can break. Honestly I challenge you to take a crowbar and by yourself find a way to break it. At best you might be able to snap one of the teeth on the claw end, especially if it's a cheap non-steel version (one infused with nickel and aluminum)


I would also rather see fixing a tool, instead of 'disposable tools'. When we used to work on scaffolds we had a running joke 'Disposable Tools'. This is because on occasion someone would drop a tool and force them to go down and retrieve it. So we dreamed up "What if we simply had disposable tools? hammer 1 nail and chuck the hammer behind you." It works as a joke but not in-practice.






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I think it’s clear that the tool breaking has been introduced to encourage base building and to counter-balance the fact that it takes hours/days to build a base and minutes for someone to grief and to destroy one.  In my opinion, this is an issue that needs tackling with some priority as presently there’s a lot of people who don’t feel it’s worth trying to build decent fortifications and camps, especially on large population servers.


As I particularly enjoy base building and see it as something that SHOULD be a big part of a post-apocalyptic game (fits Epoch perfectly!), if it means it's going to actually take some time and effort for some random sackless clown to destroy and dismantle everything me and my mates have taken time to construct, I'm more than happy to have to have a few extra tool kits in my gear to reduce it for the time being.


I agree it's not really the best and most authentic way to tackle the issue though and it's just another way to frustrate those of us who are playing "properly".  


Like the OP, I think tool kits should be made up of individual elements.  I had a suggestion back on vanilla about having to build a "tool" kit first by scavenging individual tools first then combining them into a  "tool kit" once you have got all the items, such as hammers, screw drivers, pliers, wrench and even the tool box.


I’d say most common repair functions such as changing car wheels etc. wouldn't need a full tool kit, so just scavenging a  wrench/jack would be enough for players to do that. However, when it come to building and de-constructing fortifications it would say it should take a full tool kit and it should take time and effort to actually scavenge/buy all the tools required.


Taking it a step further the other suggestions I would make regarding fortifications would be;


-   How about having bases/fortifications only capable of being dismantled IF the players who put them up are online (or have recently been online – say up to an hour after them leaving).  


-    Alternatively and my personal preference; Make fortifications require maintenance in order to be solid and “unbreakable”. If there was a timer set to various fortifications such as hessian walls whereby they could only be dismantled after their maintenance state reduced below,  say 90% (which could trigger after maybe 2-3 days?). It would mean players would have to stay active and spend some time “maintaining” their fortifications IF they wanted them to remain solid and unreachable. If not their bases would stay intact but others would be capable of dismantling them, but ONLY if they had a full tool kit (as in they had scavenged/bought all the elements of the tool kit).

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I think the point here was not to make the owner of the pole/building miserable but to discourage others from destroying your base.


The means to this end may be unrealistic but have the charm of being easily implemented.


I myself would prefer buildings that cannot be taken down by anyone other than the owner (some servers have a kind of keypad system for this) to emulate 'base defence' during log-off time.

But there is a vivid part of the community that claims that destroying other's property 'is just DayZ' (if there have been better 'arguments' (other than cluttering which can be solved by active admins that know their regular customers) I haven't seen them).


So, I'd rather see the current solution than base-wrackers roaming freely. You can buy crowbars and put them into your safe (ups, ceterum censeo: toolbelt items should not occupy weapon slots ;-)


Edit: ninja'd by boxman80

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I fully agree with what has been said here but I would like to point out one problem..


Building your own toolbox..

We are limited by the engine when it comes to toolbelt slots. With Epoch, we are already even more limited due to the nature of keys.

Putting individual tools on there until you get them all..and could combine them into a single item toolbox would not be the best idea in my opinion.


However...I would love to see the toolbox as a STORAGE medium for..tools.

Just like how the Briefcase allows you to store multiple 10oz bars of gold, why not make the toolbox a storage device.

If that could be done then I think more TOOLS could be added since they would have a place to be stored other than our limited toolbelt.


Slightly offtopic: If we could get a working toolbox (IE: It holds tools) then we should be able to get a working keyring to hold keys. Hopefully


Back to the point.

I think the idea of a toolbox, fillled with tools, would be great. I also think that they would need to somehow set different..life expectancy's of certain tools. You will break a screwdriver before you break a crowbar, etc.


I agree they went overboard with the whole tool breakage but I honestly cannot say to stop it..until a better solution is presented. As a way to protect our stuff from being torn apart by some random griefing troll..it works better than what was there before. Until we get something better..yeh.


Personally I am not sure why anyone can tear down a building other than the original owner. But maybe that's just me.

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I'm afraid the toolbox as holder idea, while nice, would be difficult to implement.

Just guessing here, but I assume the briefcases are implemented by swapping between 11 different DB-items (0-10*10oz) instead of having one item and a kind of pointer to the content.

Again assuming that is the easiest/obly way to go, that would mean you'd need one toolbox item instance for every possible permutation of the contents - that's not feasible.

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Just to re-enforce my point earlier in the thread; this is still an issue...  I've seen several examples this week alone where players start playing Epoch, love the implemented crafting and base building, dedicate hours of gameplay to it only to then be forced give up after their efforts and hard work are ruined a day or so later when some other player(s) stumble across it and decided to raid and reconstruct everything. It's just counter productive to a massive part of the game. 


Its far too hard to fortify or secure camps as opposed to breaching them or destroying them. Would be nice to see PIN access doors or re-enforced gates or at least SOMETHING that offers protection to craftable buildings. At present stealth is the only protection for bases but on a map as relatively small as Chernarus, camps/constructions dont stay hidden for long enough to warrant their construction. This means in all too many instances it's pointless to create a base, which is a shame as many of us love this part of the game. 

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