What is considered 'griefing'?

[CrazyCorky]

I'm just curious as to what you guys as admins, server owners, and players consider griefing?

 

While I'm a huge fan of base raiding, camping, stalking, and other forms of having an encounter. Where do you cross the line at griefing?

 

Destroying a persons vehicles in their base simply because you couldn't get any benefit from them? Continually flattening a persons base causing them to leave the server? Consistently stalking someone on the server and harassing them?

 

I know people have their opinions. Let's keep this civil and please don't attack another person.

[Brian Soanes]

Constantly hanging at a spawn point trader trying to steal and harass others, like every restart for at least a day, otherwise they're just a trader bum.
Apart from that, anything should go, you don't want to set the scene of a holdy hands server touch and tell with Barney and pals bandage your sandy v*****  :D

[axeman]

More importantly, if you feel griefed, how would you retaliate? 

[Richie]

 

Destroying a persons vehicles in their base simply because you couldn't get any benefit from them?

 

I have no problem with that :)

 

 

Continually flattening a persons base causing them to leave the server?

 

I wouldn't allow that

 

 

Consistently stalking someone on the server and harassing them?

 

Targeting someone i don't mind, harassing them i would object to.

 

At the end of the day it's a game with guns, people will die, people have property, therefore they will be robbed, picking on someone so much you upset them and cause them to leave the server i don't like, there's a line, we all know about it, step on it but never cross it :)

[axeman]

Define harrasing.. 

[IIIBYRDIII]

I take a slightly different perspective as far as "griefing" and harassing when it comes to Epoch. The way I see it in ArmA in general there is none, it's a game designed to hunt and kill. When Epoch comes into consideration the only way I would see griefing would be if you were to camp outside of a safe/spawn zone and disallow a player to be able to have access to the regular environment. That's it, the rest is fair play, so make your enemies ones you can defend against.

[1Man]

Well I guess I will put my 2 cents in, if it's continued harassment then your an Internet bully! I don't stand for that in real life or online so I handle those issues on a car by case basis. Causing someone to leave a server after continuing harassment should not be condoned on any server but what's considered harassment? That's up for the admins to decide on their server but if I feel a player might leave after repairing their base on a daily basis from one specific group I will have some words with this group.

[axeman]

I am curious only to combat it. If griefing is considered to be camping a static spawn point then we can add a method to combat that. Feedback would help.. 

 

Edit: any personal harassment via speech or chat should be stamped on immediately by server admins. If someone feels harassed on a server or forum then please report it using the report facility on this forum. 

[CrazyCorky]

As for harassment, I've seen people purposely leech AI onto people. Or what it seemed like the AI went after a different target than what the Drone spawned on.

[umfufu]

As for harassment, I've seen people purposely leech AI onto people. Or what it seemed like the AI went after a different target than what the Drone spawned on.

But thats plain tactics , they may work or fall right in your own lap

And what if another player/group is searching trash/spawn and their trigger goes to the first 1 (the harraser)

[second_coming]

Drawing AI to someone is fine I'd say. Continually targeting a person or group to the point that people leave the server is not and I would step in and ask the offenders to stop if I saw it happening.

 

That said it is a PVP game so some combat and base raiding should be expected, but there are always people who take things too far.

 

That's not something that can be stopped through scripting, it requires human monitoring.

[Brez]

1. Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game. 

2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game. 

3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics.

 

From a google search relating online gaming.

 

If all you are doing is going around with some sort of undisclosed intention of pushing players off a server by continually doing actions to support that  then it's probably not going to go over too good for you.  It's not the action itself as much as the repetition of it that's the problem especially if it's continually the same player(s) you are doing it to.  

You also don't want to piss off the wrong players.. Some are friends of admin and admin will side with them over you any day. Doesn't even matter if you are right and they are wrong.

[KPABATOK]

I always thought griefing as abusing usually non-written rules. Like camping spawn points and camping spawn point cities, stealing from players at spawn point traders, killing from spawn points, especially noticeable in bigger servers, more people, more kids with their 4chan mindset.

 

And of course I was always against constantly camping a person's base and destroying vehicles on purpose in that base as griefing too, but more of a grey area, as some admins allow it, some don't. Constantly hunting a person? Nah, I think it is ok, it is part of the game, hunt, be hunted etc.

[DirtySanchez]

Survival, Looting, PvP, PvE, KoS, Theft, Carjacks, Lockpicks, Play Possum and Kill em, Base building, Base Raiding, Base Camping, Trader Camping, Trader Killing, AI Missions, Supply Drop PvP areas, Control Points PvP areas, Random Convoy battles and much much more.

However, there was only one item in that list that didn't have to do with shooting and killing and crime. BASE BUILDING.

Its very hard to keep it all under control when the game is based off of CHAOS!

However there is a fine line to Harassment and the worst culprit is SIDE CHAT.

Shit talking is fine, but get it out and get it over with, move on to ACTION.

Keyboard warriors will always see the DOOR at DP, matter of fact just got done with a mass Extinction of a certain clan last week :)

We cant baby sit everything every minute of the day, but those that do a good job, reap the rewards of a good solid community and player base.

[second_coming]

Survival, Looting, PvP, PvE, KoS, Theft, Carjacks, Lockpicks, Play Possum and Kill em, Base building, Base Raiding, Base Camping, Trader Camping, Trader Killing, AI Missions, Supply Drop PvP areas, Control Points PvP areas, Random Convoy battles and much much more.

However, there was only one item in that list that didn't have to do with shooting and killing and crime. BASE BUILDING.

Its very hard to keep it all under control when the game is based off of CHAOS!

However there is a fine line to Harassment and the worst culprit is SIDE CHAT.

Shit talking is fine, but get it out and get it over with, move on to ACTION.

Keyboard warriors will always see the DOOR at DP, matter of fact just got done with a mass Extinction of a certain clan last week :)

We cant baby sit everything every minute of the day, but those that do a good job, reap the rewards of a good solid community and player base.

 

Yeah, pretty much. I can't stand people trying to wind other players up in chat. Just go and kill them, don't talk about it.

[nedfox]

Griefing and harassment is subjective, and each side will have their story about it. You can't lock those into server rules, except for very basic "don't steal at traders" but then 1 guy can mention someone stealing and that is sorted. If you have active admins.

 

IMO having active admins watching players is key in here; repeatedly stalking/killing etc is someone only an admin can asses. W/E players say is by definition not true or one-sided (sadly) so you need objective eyes on it. Then talk to both sides and try to explain that it's a game and everyone is there for the fun of gaming / playing.

 

I totally agree on base-raiding as retaliation, once.. If we see it happen over and over (especially when the defenders aren't there) that changes.

[OzzY_MG]

I personally define griefing as generally as possible on my server, that way my fellow admins and I reserve the right to make the final decision. My definition is performing any action that causes other players to have an excessively negative gaming experience. Should it be base camping, repeatedly blowing up someones base, corpse camping, harassment, or whatever. This way if someone is performing these actions you can give them a warning and direct them to your rules section. Maybe make a note that they have been corrected and the next time it happens you drop the ban hammer on them. This is just my way of doing business, I don't even allow disrespect toward each other on my server. Trash talking one another is fine, but when it gets personal or excessive, its not tolerated.  :lol:

[Floyd]

.... My definition is performing any action that causes other players to have an excessively negative gaming experience.

Pretty much this for me. If you're consistently and repeatedly ruining someone elses game play to the point where its no longer fun for them, then perhaps its time to find someone else (or someway else) with which to have 'your' fun. In the end, it is a game after all and sportsmanship (sadly a term lost to most today) should be the order of the day.

 

From Merriam-Webster:

Sportsmanship:

1.conduct considered fitting for a sportsperson, including observance of the rules of fair play, respect for others, and graciousness in losing

[chisel]

For me, griefing comes from your intent.  If your only purpose on my server is to truly ruin someones (or everyone's) experience then you'll be shown the door in short order.

[cring0]

For me, griefing comes from your intent. If your only purpose on my server is to truly ruin someones (or everyone's) experience then you'll be shown the door in short order.

That's probably the best way of breaking it down. You shouldn't be catering to cry babies unless that's all you want filling up your server. At the same time, all it takes is a small group of homebody asshats with nothing better to do but try to puss people off to drive everyone off your server. Unless you're running a teletubby server, it's really hard for an admin to make that call if they care about server population.

One of the biggest problems in Epoch is that a lot of time and patience goes into base building, and being that most players aren't robots and must log out of a server to sleep, at least.. well, it's really a rough call when people raid a base while the owners are away. Thus, either the owner is content with having his base destroyed faster than they can build it, or they give up on base building and pvp, or just give up on epoch because what's the point in playing Epoch over other mods? Hopefully we'll find a way to balance such things in the future without resorting to punishing players simply for playing the game.

[Taogeht]

I think the only thing I would consider greifing in Epoch would be to be killing people at spawn points.  Anything outside of the spawn is fair game.

 

If you got killed and the same person killed you while running back to your body.  This isn't greifing.  Go to another spawn point, gear up elsewhere.

[cring0]

Honestly, I'd prefer the spawn teleporters to teleporters you somewhere random within a vacinity. I'm thinking that would clear up some spawn camping issues.

[Chainsaw Squirrel]

A world with out bitches and whiners ..is a world where I can kick back pop a brew, and watch the action.. you come to play .. play ... people are brutal, but many or more so when they can hide at home, and go postal. I love the smell of bambi flesh burning in the sunset lol

 

[Scaris]

With ArmA 3 and survival games in general Griefing is almost irrelevant to me. It's much more relevant in PvE games and MMO's where players can use the PvE rule set to cause someone anguish within the game mechanics. In EPOCH if you blow up someone's car that is your choice, and they have every right to do whatever they want in retaliation to that. 

I don't see how you could persistently stalk someone unless you are hacking and scripting to do it. All the maps are pretty big and there are no names over anyone's heads. The only thing I consider unacceptable on my servers that is within the allowed mechanics of the game is harassment. If a player is constantly harassing someone in a crystal channel and generally being a tool I get rid of them, I don't have time for childishness in the community.

There are a lot of people and admins however that play EPOCH that make conduct rules for their servers however. I personally think trying to do this is silly, let the game mechanics do the work and let the community develop itself. But I have seen servers that would for example say it's a ban if you use a vehicle as an explosive device to enter a base, however it's completely do-able within the mechanics of the game. That doesn't make any sense to me, but that's why everyone can make their own server.

[KPABATOK]

Totally agree. I used to be of a different opinion, but now I think Epoch should be as hardcore as possible, no care bear servers, with 20 different rules (and such servers call themselves PVP it's laughable). Always try to help new people who don't know Arma 3 mechanics, not to build shelfs close to walls and build higher foundations, otherwise one can steal all their stuff without using any explosive or vehicle. Though few servers have scripts which disallow looking through walls but I do not like them, since they cause more false-positives than do any good.