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A plea to the Epoch developers


XTAL

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Please stop making this mod so militarized. I fell in love with vanilla Epoch, when it was just a bunch of players on Chernarus using CZs and M4s to hunt each other, and retreating back to their wooden shacks... How times have changed... People flying helicopters around cities, shooting people with 50 cal machine guns all while dodging rocket launchers. Please go back to your survival roots. This mod is going to be DOA if you don't fix it. You obviously care about this mod and put your best efforts into it, so please don't just allow this to be wasteland part 2 with random monsters walking around. Epoch is the only mod in which you can build bases and I'd hate to see it fall into obscurity. 

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I used to have this same complaint in all the DayZ/Epoch mods out there (I still do to an extent).  The game just isn't very survival when everyone is running around decked out in top military gear and vehicles (and I REALLY wish "survival" would drop from the description of these games, they simply aren't anymore, post apocalyptic game yes, survival, no, it's a player driven rp game with some eating/drinking elements (with how survival is being tossed around we should just call any game with death as an outcome "survival")).  I used to try and play the civ way, but you're almost always at a severe disadvantage doing that.  You'll have inferior weaponry and you won't have the camo.  If you play on a pve server it isn't so bad, but pvp you're basically meat unless you know what you're doing.  At the same time I realize that this is a mod of a military simulator, and uses practically all it's resources from Arma with little to no custom gear added.  Face it, adding custom weaponry and clothing is a lot of work.  It would be cool if we get some eventually though.  In A3 Epoch it doesn't bother me so bad.  It's futuristic enough that I can get around the discrepancy and I tend to roleplay that it's more of a Mad Max universe, and that suits me just fine.  If you do want to stay with a more civilian load out you can do what I used to do.  Hunter outfit, boonie hat (or whatever you like), M14 (with a suppressor and decent scope this is enough punch for anything, and keeps a civ look) , and grab a quad or ebike.  

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I don't mind the whole military gear etc etc hell the first thing I would do is raid Local military bases if I could in an end of the world scenario. I understand it can be a bit of a downer when you get flattened but coming from a military sim and the fact that most survival films I have seen are people armed to the teeth with weapons and modded trucks Epoch doesn't seem that bad especially since vehicles get screwed up real easy.

 

I think it would be great fun if you could upgrade normal vehicles like trucks etc etc with armor plating from salvage metal to create new vehicles. Maybe putting a snow plow on the front and armored sides instead of a hunter, Ifrit or Strider to create that end of the world feel and make sure there is one hello of a grind to get it upgraded. 

 

With the need to have people play on the server we have put AI missions in. With AI comes RPG's and as a counter we put the Armed pickup in there to counter the RPG launchers that are bound to get hoarded. Making it a lot easier to kill the HMG operator and driver instead of a Bulletproof Hunter HMG or GMG xD 

 

 

The game is still survival, You still have to build shelter, stay dry, keep warm, eat, not get killed by other players, the brutality is still there and you have the same chance of gathering Military gear as anyone else :) 

 

 

Remember Altis is a big map too. Not that they are needed but Vehicles give people a lot more incentive to move around the map and run more risk of running into people. 

 

All part of the Mod though, with new mods come changes the old school will not like and the same for anyone who gets on board with this mod for the next, just play and have fun. Just hope you find a decent Admin and learn to play a little different :D

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in Today's gaming world survival means "you need to eat and drink not to die" hence every game with those two assets is automatically a "survival" game...

 

 

Out of interest Johny, What would you class as a survival game? because from the top of my head there is quite a few ailments you need to fight off in Epoch and I want to know what true survival means in your eyes. 

 

you have:

 

Hunger/Thirst

Shelter/Building

Sickness/Toxicity

PVP (other survivors)

Damage or Limb breaking 

Hunting 

Cooking

Crafting

 

 

Bearing in mind that this is an Alpha stage game, I think the guys are doing a great job in giving us stuff to survive against, and I would be damn sure interested to find out what else a game needs to class as survival. 

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There's Epoch designed by the developers.

 

And then there's Epoch, modified and made into a Call of Duty-clone made by many clueless people, who fortunately in most cases end up with empty servers once people start figuring out that what they thought they wanted really wasn't what they wanted.

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Or there are servers that have players bases that like that kind of thing, or there is clueless fanboys who spout "blah blah if it's not vanilla it's garbage" and berate anyone else who doesn't have a brown tipped nose that likes something that they don't agree with.

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Xtal, A3 Epoch is what the server owner makes it. He could choose to include all the helis, to add armed vehicles with 50 caliber machine guns and increase the loot, or he could do what I have, which is to remove the helis (except the mosquito, which is like the mozzie), limit vehicles to about 100 and leave the files alone, not adding in extras like unicorn pooping lock boxes, "starter kits", towing, 1000 vehicles and all that extra stuff. As we are able to modify more stuff, the loot tables specifically, I will be reducing the amount of military gear in the world and do whatever else makes it more of a survivalist atmosphere.

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There's Epoch designed by the developers.

 

And then there's Epoch, modified and made into a Call of Duty-clone made by many clueless people, who fortunately in most cases end up with empty servers once people start figuring out that what they thought they wanted really wasn't what they wanted.

 

 

I agree to an extent. I think variations in the servers help create slightly different experiences and helps define a good variety in options for the players, the modifications in play or style are why I got a PC 6 months ago. Hell if all the servers where the same then why would epoch not just host their own servers so that nothing ever goes wrong with the game and you have official no changes allowed servers. 

 

( not a dig at you or anyone who keeps it vanilla) but the idea of PC from what I was sold by countless friends is the customization of servers, games and even characters. 

 

 

We (try as we might) want to keep it as close to normal as we can. So the addition of 2-3 Armed pickups and some AI missions (for players when the server is empty is enough for us and will stay that way until the Devs put in AI missions (from what I have heard they are coming) 

 

At the end of the day, it's down to play preference and what your community wants. we are a community starting from scratch and all we want is a solid base of like minded players that enjoy a laugh as much as we do. Without something to differentiate your server from the others then there is no point in having a server xD 

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I agree to an extent. I think variations in the servers help create slightly different experiences and helps define a good variety in options for the players, the modifications in play or style are why I got a PC 6 months ago. Hell if all the servers where the same then why would epoch not just host their own servers so that nothing ever goes wrong with the game and you have official no changes allowed servers. 

 

( not a dig at you or anyone who keeps it vanilla) but the idea of PC from what I was sold by countless friends is the customization of servers, games and even characters. 

 

 

We (try as we might) want to keep it as close to normal as we can. So the addition of 2-3 Armed pickups and some AI missions (for players when the server is empty is enough for us and will stay that way until the Devs put in AI missions (from what I have heard they are coming) 

 

At the end of the day, it's down to play preference and what your community wants. we are a community starting from scratch and all we want is a solid base of like minded players that enjoy a laugh as much as we do. Without something to differentiate your server from the others then there is no point in having a server xD 

 

 

You are wasting your time trying to rationalise yourself to this guy ;)

 

What he fails to say, is that there are plenty populated modded servers that are jammed full most of the time. ;) This was the case in A2 and it WILL be the case in A3. Yet his server isn't as populated as he'd hoped it would be, maybe thats why he rails on anything non vanilla, idk, to be honest I don't care either.

 

Everyone has their own ideas on what makes a good server, Players will make up their own minds on what type of game they play. Haters gonna hate.  Don't ever justify yourself to others about your server ;)  Best bet is when someone begins making snidey comments on servers not being vanilla blah blah, is to chin them off ;) AS I'm sure they do that with the opposite side of the arguement.

 

You'll find plenty Modded servers busy.

You'll find plenty Vanilla servers busy.

You'll find plenty Hardcore servers Empty.

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Or there are servers that have players bases that like that kind of thing, or there is clueless fanboys who spout "blah blah if it's not vanilla it's garbage" and berate anyone else who doesn't have a brown tipped nose that likes something that they don't agree with.

 

You are a pretty angry person, aren't you?

The only "berating" done here, ironically is being done by you.

 

My point stands true though, 80% of the servers out there are empty MOST of the time just because there are so many who do not know what appeals to players in the long run. There are a few who provide content that appeals to people, most of that content being just what the Epoch-developers intended. 

 

There's a reason why so many people flock around Epoch and instead of making their own mod, cluelessly make some mish-mash of things that appeal to no one in the long run. With rocket launcher vehicles, jets, 600 vehicles, 24/7 day, etc. etc. - it might look "cool" with 20 different "unique" things in the server-name, in the end those servers are empty, and eventually close down, still. You let your pitiful anger about me actually being able to both disagree and agree with the developers cloud your judgment on the subject. Really of course you know I am right. But useless pride keep you bitching and making assumptions.

 

Obviously there are some servers who are widely successful that add just the right balance of things to appeal to people. Not once do those servers go for the 100% militarized setting as described in the OP.

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Perhaps it is not anger then, simply pure ignorance. Perhaps this is why you are laughing at something you've constructed in your mind.

 

You're insinuating that people who mod their servers to suit their players are mindless cod playing idiots that will have empty servers, which is complete rubbish and again makes me laugh at you. Your point doesn't stand, it doesnt even crawl.

Do you always combat invisible wind-mills, Señor de la Mancha? Or must you construct another strawman's argument to try and win some Internet-battle about absolutely nothing.

I am simply stating that there's a reason why the vast majority of the servers are empty, and it's because they run exactly the kind of server that the OP is talking about, a server which is inherently against the base purpose and design of Epoch.

 

 

Third point which makes me laugh the most. If people didn't enjoy the types of things you berate, then how come there is so many populated servers with mods? Why isn't your plain server so populated? Maybe because there is far more servers than their is players for the mod maybe? Or maybe because people get bored playing on a server that's exsactly the same as the rest of the vanilla servers? In the long run in A2 the most populated servers were the heavily modded servers. Bar maybe 1-2. Guess that was all a fiction of peoples imagination. As will it happen in A3. Your likes of CCG, ATD and various other server owners have busy thriving communities with modded servers. According to you they wont though. Thanks for making me chuckle with that one.

Impressive fervor, yet you only manage to strike swiftly through thin air and kick in doors that are open. On the contrary I think the ability of modding Epoch is one of the strengths of it. That's why I keep on applauding the effort of Kilo Swiss, and other servers who do cool stuff with and to Epoch. What you keep failing to grasp for some reason is that I am for modding, but against BAD modding, that essentially completely changes the purpose of Epoch, which isn't 100% about PvP, endless hordes of choppers, rockets, etc. but about building, trading, gathering, surviving, AND raiding and killing each other.

 

 

 

 

Last point this one is a big one.

 

DID YOU EVEN READ THE OP?

I did, but you turned his thread into some territorial piss fest.

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In my opinion it's way too early to make any judgement about this subject.  The mod is still in VERY early Alpha and we don't have the full picture of what the mod is even going to be yet.  One of the best aspects of Epoch is that nothing is banned by the mod like it was in DayZ and other mods, where you can't add any objects and weapons other than what is specifically allowed by the mod itself.  This allows innovation and customization by the community to the n-th degree, which is part of what has made Epoch the best mod for Arma 2 and now Arma 3.  The complaints raised by the OP aren't in any way the fault of the Epoch team and their direction for the mod, as rocket launchers and armed helis are not part of the intended Epoch experience.  Instead they are added by server owners who want to steer their servers in a particular direction.  Whether or not we agree with that direction is truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.  Servers come and go as people's wants and interests change and lack of interest sets in.  Sure the armed helis and rocket launcher servers may be popular today.  But 3 months from now.....it's anyone's guess.  Asking the Epoch dev team to lock down the mod to prevent the addition of items, weapons and vehicles is directly against the spirit of community innovation that Epoch was built upon.    There are people out there who want the CoD experience in Epoch.  And there are people who don't.  Why not just let each group exist and let the chips fall where they may?  

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True, Tobias.  But every once in a while somebody makes something and they knock it out of the park and create a masterpiece that pushes the envelope to the next level.  Without that process of trial and error we wouldn't be where we are today.

I agree with you, there are parts of the evolution of DayZ:Epoch that brought forward changes in the mod, advancing it and making it better, and partly what we see today. It still requires a firm hand to know where to steer and what changes people wish for that might just end up making Epoch fall apart, I believe that's one of the concerns of the OP, and possibly something that would make the devs reluctant to paying too much heed to some people's wishes.

When we hosted SE5 on Zombies.NU there were a lot of people who pretty much "demanded" first person only, and longer nights, etc. - the very same players played for a day when we tried those very settings and were complaining about it not being entertaining enough. You really have to know what the hell you're doing as you are experimenting, and have to keep things in line. There are several reasons why so many servers in the hosters forumss consistently have 0-3 players 24/7, one of them being that quite a lot of people do NOT know how to best add mods to Epoch.

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I fight the same stuff on my servers.  People think they want things added to the servers but in the end they just want to try it out and most of the time end up not liking it.  Running a server is a marathon, not a sprint.  You have to think long term and keep your eyes on the prize.  

 

I understand the OP's concerns, but I don't think there's any danger of Epoch itself falling apart.  The only falling apart there will be is when individual servers fail due to lack of interest in its player base.  Epoch by default offers a good balance of PVP and PVE.  It's up to server owners to maintain that balance.  Some will succeed while others fail.  All I'm saying is that we should let that natural selection process run its course without interference from the dev team in the form of banning weapons and vehicles in the code.  

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