What's the point of building when people can destroy your base with c4

[SkyDogs]

Well, gotta give players what they need, not what they want.

An indestructible base is not the solution, for anyone; I promise you.

We already saw it in DayZ Epoch, any server operator foolish enough to attempt implementing this is in for some serious headache, and a revolving-turn-style at their server gates.

I can't offer an argument in relation to the technical problems with indestructible bases, but I can with the playing aspects. And it is of my opinion that destructible bases will result in the loss of players.

All that being said, I'm only advocating having indestructible materials alongside destructible materials. This worked well on mgt A2 Epoch, where base takeovers were commonplace, and the aggrieved simply had to learn how to make a secure base if they didn't want to suffer losing their home again.

Not everyone had the patience or knowledge to make a full indestructible cinder base. Bases built on the side of existing, destructible buildings were also commonplace, which lead to many being taken over by having the building they'd built onto, blown up.

So I'd say that indestructible materials doesn't mean all bases will be Inpenetrable.

I do hope your solutions are ground breaking and remove the constant destruction of bases. Before the wannabe moderators jump in to point out the game isn't finished, I already know. But as it is now, the mod is losing players aplenty. Just look at the server lists.

[Sequisha]

I do hope your solutions are ground breaking and remove the constant destruction of bases. Before the wannabe moderators jump in to point out the game isn't finished, I already know. But as it is now, the mod is losing players aplenty. Just look at the server lists.

To be fair there are plenty of other reasons why player numbers have dropped temporarily, there have been numerous AAA releases in the past days; you can see that activity easily on twitch.

As for groundbreaking, it will be in this engine; but it has been done before in the past of gaming.  I'll be focusing on these things today live on stream if you'd like to get an idea where we're going.

[SkyDogs]

To be fair there are plenty of other reasons why player numbers have dropped temporarily, there have been numerous AAA releases in the past days; you can see that activity easily on twitch.

As for groundbreaking, it will be in this engine; but it has been done before in the past of gaming.  I'll be focusing on these things today live on stream if you'd like to get an idea where we're going.

 

 

You told me off for not watching your stream, so consider it a date. I'll get the music, you bring the wine. 

[Sequisha]

You told me off for not watching your stream, so consider it a date. I'll get the music, you bring the wine. 

Be sure to slip into something comfortable <3

[MGT]

On our A2DZE servers we have indestructible cinder and metal floors, everything else can be destroyed, so if you put the effort in to make a base from cinder and metal you will be rewarded with a bit more protection. 

 

That indestructibility doesn't stop base takeovers, but removes the easy "blow it up" method to gain entry. You have to be clever like camp it from a distance until someone is opening a door, or drop in from a heli and camp it out until the owners return.

[SkyDogs]

On our A2DZE servers we have indestructible cinder and metal floors, everything else can be destroyed, so if you put the effort in to make a base from cinder and metal you will be rewarded with a bit more protection. 

 

That indestructibility doesn't stop base takeovers, but removes the easy "blow it up" method to gain entry. You have to be clever like camp it from a distance until someone is opening a door, or drop in from a heli and camp it out until the owners return.

 

 

This is exactly my point! And boy, the fun we had doing those things you mention, Dave; much more fun than blowing shit up while nobody is home to fight back. ANd there wasn't many server rage quits, despite us evicting a fair few of the base cowards.

[Brez]

I'm hoping we get a few more building objects.

 

 

A3 default objects are somewhat limited.

 

 

One size wooden floor, one size wood wall and cinders walls.

 

 

Me sad.

[MGT]

This is exactly my point! And boy, the fun we had doing those things you mention, Dave; much more fun than blowing shit up while nobody is home to fight back. ANd there wasn't many server rage quits, despite us evicting a fair few of the base cowards.

 

Exactly, we have a core of about 15 players who have been on the server since April 2013 and it's about getting the balance right. Blowing shit up is fun, but not if you've spent weeks gathering and building and come back to find everything ruined.

[Sandman1980]

On our A2DZE servers we have indestructible cinder and metal floors, everything else can be destroyed, so if you put the effort in to make a base from cinder and metal you will be rewarded with a bit more protection. 

 

That indestructibility doesn't stop base takeovers, but removes the easy "blow it up" method to gain entry. You have to be clever like camp it from a distance until someone is opening a door, or drop in from a heli and camp it out until the owners return.

 

This synthesizes why some construction material have to be indestructibles. Today all the people wait until the owners of a base logout and then go and blow out the base.  This thing unbalance the gaming and only benefits to the players that can be on the server 24/7.  The true challenging is, like MGT as said, be clever and realize how to take over a base.  Wait until the owners make a mistake, kill in the moment that open the doors, destroy the part of the bases that are not indestructibles (there is no perfect base).

[Kadajin]

FFS.. you have lockboxes. Hide them well and your shit is secure. Your walls can be replaced and if you cry about a few walls missing that you would have lost your base anyway because you just don't get this game.

Teams rule the server not lone wolvs who think 4 walls are the peak of protection and should be unpenetrable. This is not The Sims. Get a team - this will help you farm stuff way faster. Get creative with your builds - there are plenty of solutions to keep your base secure or at least your loot. If you get raided you can just replace the walls.. But you can also go loot other bases to replace your shit and instead of wayting fo a guy to open a door you can blow the door down and storm in there CQC style. Bet you never did that on your indistrucable cinde walls servers.

[hausser0815]

Wouldnt it be possible to change the destructible/indestructible state of something when the plotpole owner goes online/offline?
Or something gamey like "special explosives" that will make stuff destructible at 21.00 local server time?
(And some kind of indicator for the owners, maybe on the plotpole)

[Zupa]

 

 

I'm sorry, shouldn't you be emulating a3 epoch features into dayZ epoch?

This. Busy working on new features, systems, assets...crushing bugs, correcting exploits....and the impatient just spit venom on the forums. 

 

Emulating a3 epoch features ? First thing i hear? It clearly you didn't take the point well i guess. Well i'm not going to go further into it. I respect the work you did/do ofcourse and appreciate it, But whatever, you should embrace your community...not spit on it ( which i see you do multiple times).

[Shiz]

 

          This Alpha should of stayed closed for this very reason

 

 

Nobody knows what comes in store for us in the upcoming patches. Nobody knows what implementations or adjustments will be made and for good reason. The developers are busting their balls and gathering data to release this mod we have no idea what their schedule, focus, adjustments and tweaks are... It's none of our business. All their hard work is showcased for free and for our amusement. How would you guys like to come on your own forum and read this shit. It's a shame people with INSANE high post counts write garbage about the community. Spitting on the community? Standing on a soap box under-minding the developers will not get your point across... Try SENDING Private messages about your concerns or issues you have with and I'm sure you would be taken more seriously and addressed. 

 

I can't believe what criticism and obnoxious writing is within these forums. Comments about the mod losing players is the icing on the cake. When the next patch is released shit will hit the fan and servers will be full up then dip again. Look at all the hundreds of games that have DLC / Updates / Expansions. Our attention spans and tolerances are ridiculous to satisfy.

 

 

If I was a developer on this mod, I'd tell you all to suck it and play COD as well. 

 

[ToejaM]

I dont know if its been mentioned but one thing that always comes round as agreement of a good idea with bases and even 'owned' vehicles in DZE was that they should be destructible... IF that player is/has been online during this restart. Then you must decide whether or not you leave a man behind to defend or risk it for getting more loot/bigger group advantage out in the wilds.

 

The biggest issue though was always duping and duping explosives or glitching vehicles to a point where they repeatedly 'bang' off the sides but its not a huge problem if you have someone in your base to defend as they can see it happen.

 

You could argue that people would remember names, easily solved by changing names if you want some quiet time on the server.. though this would be server specific and tbh I think the player list shouldnt be visible anyway, only perhaps a player/population count just so you know what server to play on mostly without lots of trial and error.

 

I definitely don't think that bases should be easily destroyed if you're not online to defend it, its not even against those who are your usual enemy but those in different time zones, those with different work patterns or waking hours even in your same timezone, in the spirit of 'fairness without using realism' it makes the most sense to make your base vulnerable if you are online to defend it and perhaps if you don't login within 7 days, it is then vulnerable again.

 

Its far too easy to destroy anything in Arma if no-one is looking and often difficult to prove without spectating in most cases, leave it down to the players to self regulate and it removes a burden from admins who should be there as a last resort.

[Floyd]

and tbh I think the player list shouldnt be visible anyway, only perhaps a player/population count just so you know what server to play on mostly without lots of trial and error.

Hmmm..now that is a really interesting thought, imo.

[Sandman1980]

But you can also go loot other bases to replace your shit and instead of wayting fo a guy to open a door you can blow the door down and storm in there CQC style. Bet you never did that on your indistrucable cinde walls servers.

 

I understand what you said, but come on, you know that this not happens, nobody blow the door/walls and enter like commandos to play a good CQC with the owners of a base, the problem is that the most of the people wait until the base was alone, with all owners offline and then blow and destroy/steal everything.  What is good in do this?

[Tigah]

First rule about an Alpha, don't get attached to your shit. This includes feeling hard done by because your base got broken into. Without this element, there would be bases all over the show and not good for any server nor the base building materials available on the loot table. Also remember, during the Alpha, the servers can be wiped at anytime.

 

Bases definitely need to be penetrable and players need to be prepared and armed to defend their bases. This isn't over, there are plenty of changes and new features to come.

[Nasdero]

On our A2DZE servers we have indestructible cinder and metal floors, everything else can be destroyed, so if you put the effort in to make a base from cinder and metal you will be rewarded with a bit more protection. 

 

That indestructibility doesn't stop base takeovers, but removes the easy "blow it up" method to gain entry. You have to be clever like camp it from a distance until someone is opening a door, or drop in from a heli and camp it out until the owners return.

 

 

This is exactly my point! And boy, the fun we had doing those things you mention, Dave; much more fun than blowing shit up while nobody is home to fight back. ANd there wasn't many server rage quits, despite us evicting a fair few of the base cowards.

 

I do agree!

We had on our server the indestructible building, I didn't liked this idea, but the behavior of a lot of player didn't let us a chance, they stroyed the building just for fun, not to get stuff, just to annoy other player. Ok I never played vanilla A2 Dayz Epoch, on the most not vanilla server it wasn't that difficult to get the material to build. I played a lot of time A3 Epoch vanilla and I will tell you what time I needed to build our base:

 

1. 9h to get the material for the frequency jammer

2. 5 days each 2-4h to get 1 wooden wall with a locked door, 1 garage door locked, approximately 5 wooden walls and approximately 5 cynderblock walls

 

So let say ~25h, this on a nearly empty server, so I was able to loot a lot of shipping container, on a server with a lot of players, you will need much more time for sure.

 

I don't think, it is ok, that other player can destroy this in seconds or minutes. The player who build a base is a player who plays regularly on this server, the guys who destroy the base, mustn't be a regular player on this server, he just found a car and a weapon, found a base and placed the car close to the wall and let it explode and can destroy a base where the basebuilder put a lot of effort in!

 

The argument, that this will fill the server with a lot of objects, when the base is not destructible, doesn't count, you have to maintain the base, so if you don't play any more, then the base will disapear.

There are still options to raid a base, wait until someone open a door and shoot him, or take a chopper, do a parachute. This is much more interesting than just destroy something to get in!

Maybe create an other object, like a ladder, maybe craftable, should be very rare, this ladder should be long enough do get over a wall and should be also useable when a jammer is nearby, or something like a grappling iron with a rope.

 

I hope you guys, think about it.

 

Kind regards,

Nasdero

[Guest]

Wow. This thread.

[Xyz]

I do agree!

We had on our server the indestructible building, I didn't liked this idea, but the behavior of a lot of player didn't let us a chance, they stroyed the building just for fun, not to get stuff, just to annoy other player. Ok I never played vanilla A2 Dayz Epoch, on the most not vanilla server it wasn't that difficult to get the material to build. I played a lot of time A3 Epoch vanilla and I will tell you what time I needed to build our base:

 

1. 9h to get the material for the frequency jammer

2. 5 days each 2-4h to get 1 wooden wall with a locked door, 1 garage door locked, approximately 5 wooden walls and approximately 5 cynderblock walls

 

So let say ~25h, this on a nearly empty server, so I was able to loot a lot of shipping container, on a server with a lot of players, you will need much more time for sure.

 

I don't think, it is ok, that other player can destroy this in seconds or minutes. The player who build a base is a player who plays regularly on this server, the guys who destroy the base, mustn't be a regular player on this server, he just found a car and a weapon, found a base and placed the car close to the wall and let it explode and can destroy a base where the basebuilder put a lot of effort in!

 

The argument, that this will fill the server with a lot of objects, when the base is not destructible, doesn't count, you have to maintain the base, so if you don't play any more, then the base will disapear.

There are still options to raid a base, wait until someone open a door and shoot him, or take a chopper, do a parachute. This is much more interesting than just destroy something to get in!

Maybe create an other object, like a ladder, maybe craftable, should be very rare, this ladder should be long enough do get over a wall and should be also useable when a jammer is nearby, or something like a grappling iron with a rope.

 

I hope you guys, think about it.

 

Kind regards,

Nasdero

 

This is just broken game design if destroying a base needs less effort than building it. Weapons required to destroy base structures should be as hard or even harder to acquire than the building materials.

 

also, about you saying bases still can be raided with indestructible walls? No they cant. Doors can only be opened by the group that owns the frequency jammer, so having 2 doors (airlock) you pretty much make yourself immune to any raiding.

 

In arma2 Epoch having indestructible walls wasnt so bad since you could try and force the code in doors, this combined with the inability to move base structures without losing them kept the game interesting even without destroyable bases.

[Nasdero]

This is just broken game design if destroying a base needs less effort than building it. Weapons required to destroy base structures should be as hard or even harder to acquire than the building materials.

I agree, but remember, you can use also vehicle to destroy walls, just place it close to a wall and let it explode, for that we need tank traps or so to avoid it.

 

also, about you saying bases still can be raided with indestructible walls? No they cant. Doors can only be opened by the group that owns the frequency jammer, so having 2 doors (airlock) you pretty much make yourself immune to any raiding.

 

Right, and this is good, I use at least 2 doors, but the most player don't or some of their member let the doors open or forgot to lock them, like my old clan members did often.

 

In arma2 Epoch having indestructible walls wasnt so bad since you could try and force the code in doors, this combined with the inability to move base structures without losing them kept the game interesting even without destroyable bases.

The combination lock is a nice thing, but the code should be chosen by the player and not randomly and maybe expandable by crafting to more digits, you see, there are a lot of options.

 

[cring0]

This is just broken game design if destroying a base needs less effort than building it. Weapons required to destroy base structures should be as hard or even harder to acquire than the building materials.

I agree, but remember, you can use also vehicle to destroy walls, just place it close to a wall and let it explode, for that we need tank traps or so to avoid it.

^^^ I agree, I think that's the bigger issue.  Why would anyone spend a week building something when some asshats can get on for an hour and completely destroy your base for the hell of it while you're not online?  I mean, you can kinda work around the vehicles exploding by building off the top of a building(lock near top so that destroying building leaves it inaccessible.)  Of course that restricts creativity in building bases and makes it impossible to lock up vehicles(if there are going to be garage doors in the future.)  As far as the mines go, currently, they seem to be a bit too common.  I'd imagine that will change...

 

Reinforcement attachment for multi-gun that bumps up armor rate of buildables, armor slowly goes down after time?  Not sure how the backend of it works.  If something like this could be done, people would have to continually maintain their base or it becomes vulnerable.  Armor goes all the way down it disintegrates/disappears.  Could that be done, would it make sense?

 

The way things are now, there's no point in trying to build a base unless you have a lot of time to burn and have a careless attitude about it.  It seems a lot of people come into Epoch and expect to be able to enjoy themselves while only spending an hour or so on it every other day.  Doesn't work like that.  Thus, it's way easier and less time consuming to just base raid.  So you have a bunch of people base raiding and only a couple people actually willing to build a base because of it.

I'm assuming this got buried since no one called me an idiot.  I don't really like the way maintain is now, it seems... kinda lazy on the players' part.  However, I know that if something like this could be done, it would probably be a lot of work for the devs.  You would probably have to have some way of telling which building parts are degrading, like having different visual models of each building part(pristine/worn/decaying etc.) which would definitely be more work on the modeling end...  I wish I had time to help instead of simply suggesting things lol, I need a sugar momma.

[kyrane]

- plz fix the duplicate shit! everyone just logged out and got double stuff after relogg... so the peoples got... 8 or more backpack bombs and can blowout your whole base.. this is not funny... no mather what comes next. this should be changed immediatly!

- Damage higher maybe on buildingparts and the possibility for the creator of a wall to destroy the wall. there are so much crap along a server and everyone crys about world limit exceeded...

- also make a "BLACK" zone under the Saltlake.. inside the small water area there are more as 5-6 boats respawned and noboy can use it but it takes the world limit.

 

- always raining every server restart on greek... make sense?

- Jammer Frequenzy is DESTROYABLE! why??? i dont wanna loot 3 weeks for an faggot who come along with enough bombs to blow everything up in 2 minutes... this is absolutly useless... and your e-bike dont make more happy and its also buggy.. alot times the ebike just stuck inside the floor.. on buildingparts and on the ground.

pww... lockbox is also buged on team... only teamleader can open and close it.. when someone who not leader make the lockbox then everyone from team can access.

- Dog? Useless...

- sapper just stay arround and do nothing alot of time... looks like it cant find the player movement way to follow...

- and so on... and the biggest question from me to the DEVELOPERS!

 

why are u building or create walls who its actually possible to glitch trough it with easy steps?
make a double wall with wood and metall or a tripple wall with cinderblocks.. it takes maybe more place. but fuck off.. its hilarious when u build a base and every doodle can jump, crawl, roll inside the base.. GG

 

peace out!

P.S.

 

Sequisha: Your work and your modifikation is good, your Team works great. so dont start to write bullshit here. your mod wouldn't be the first and at least not the last who dies cause the Dev Team are jackasses... ok? i saw a lot DEV's Teams broken or the Mod dieying in case of this.. would be realy sad :(

[FFDP]

My cinder walls and doors blowed up and still got my plot pole and only 2 days old fucking stupid until u fix it I really don't wanna play waste of time and effort

Hahahahaha ha. Sorry, I just had to get that laugh out first.

So your base got raided and you came to the forums to complain about it? Possibly, try building your base somewhere less obvious. Rethink your purpose for building. What will happen to your base if no one is there to defend it? What of value to you are you willing to leave there while you are offline?

How many people are you building for? Is it time/cost effective to be building something at all?

Those are all questions you should have considered before building something that tells other players that there may be something of value beyond these walls.

Be smart. Look at the terrain. Use it to your advantage. Nature provides concealment. Use it.

[Čeh]

Hmmm..now that is a really interesting thought, imo.

 

True, but you still pass through the lobby. Plus, there are online services that query the player list and display them on their websites....