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Perks for donating..


ToejaM

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Specifically, which bit do you mean when you refer to "share alike" ? :)

 

Either way, I'm not sure if Zombies.nu (DayZero) donation scheme in accordance BI / DayZ ToS/licensing because I've no involvement in the donations.

Zombies.NU donations are nothing to do with the "Zombies.NU" ARMA 3 Epoch servers.

You dont share the Server files.

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You dont share the Server files.

 

Haha, okay, wasn't sure if that was sarcasm or not? :P

 

Sharing serverfiles is a different ball game.

 

DayZero was developed from DayZ vanilla rather than any pre-existing mods.

I see why the Zombies.NU/DayZero developers are relunctant share their server files that they've spent 1000s of hours working on. One of the good reasons for this is to prevent hackers/script-kiddies.

Another is that the mod runs best on the servers hosted by Zombies.NU as they aren't strictly server-grade hardware.. i.e. the primary server running DayZero is an i5 @ 5 GHz, database stored on RAM-disks etc.

DayZero prides itself on one of it's core factors of high performance :)

 

But let's not get off-topic too much!

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I'm not sure what you're trying to explain here, sorry.

Did the reserve slots command a set price, or could you donate any amount you could afford in return for one?

 

You said that reserved slots are unfair because you have to wait for 6 of the 55 slots to clear to get on (although from memory you just needed 1 of the unreserved slots to clear but it's been a while I'm not 100% sure). Without donations there's every likelihood that those 5 extra slots wouldn't have existed so I'm struggling to see how that's unfair. I'm not sure what the exact rules were but I donated £10, possibly more than once but I did so because they put a lot of work and effort into creating a better version of the DayZ mod than the official one and I wanted to give that some support. The fact that it gave me a special donator skin and access to reserved slots was secondary and didn't in any way put non-donators at a disadvantage. It's a world away from spawning with extra equipment or having easier access to core components of the game which tilts the game in favour of those with the deepest pockets.

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You said that reserved slots are unfair because you have to wait for 6 of the 55 slots to clear to get on (although from memory you just needed 1 of the unreserved slots to clear but it's been a while I'm not 100% sure). Without donations there's every likelihood that those 5 extra slots wouldn't have existed so I'm struggling to see how that's unfair.

Right, so you did mean what you wrote earlier. I don't see your logic but you did say you're struggling to see what I mean.

Let me explain based on how I understand it.

The 5 reserve slots are at the top of the pile, right?

Upto 50 playing players anyone can access the server, right?

Once 50 is reached, then only reserved slot owners can access the server, right?

The server reaches capacity(55), then 5 non donators leave, leaving the server with 50 players. Even though non donators left the server, only donators can take their places, right?

So if I'm correct, without the reserved slots, regardless of capacity, I stand a better chance of entering the server as all who is trying to get in is equal, right. We all need to spam enter.

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From memory if the server was full and 5 non-donators left then there would be five non-donator slots open but it was like a year ago so I can't be 100% sure. But what I'm trying to say is that donators funded those extra slots, without them then you wouldn't get on when the server had 50 slots full anyway because there wouldn't have been an extra slots there in the first place. Less overall slots = less chance of getting on for everyone when it's busy.

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But what I'm trying to say is that donators funded those extra slots, without them then you wouldn't get on when the server had 50 slots full anyway because there wouldn't have been an extra slots there in the first place. Less overall slots = less chance of getting on for everyone when it's busy.

Jesus H Christ, I broke down my last reply for you. Of course the more slots available the less people competing to get in, obviously.

But if a server is full, regardless of capacity, the absence of reserve slots makes it easier to get in compared to a full server with reserved slots.

The extra 5 slots can be an extra 10, but if they're reserved and the server is full, it makes no positive difference to players that did not buy a reserved slot. This of course depends on if I'm correct about the reserved slots sitting on top of the pile.

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Haha, okay, wasn't sure if that was sarcasm or not? :P

 

Sharing serverfiles is a different ball game.

 

DayZero was developed from DayZ vanilla rather than any pre-existing mods.

I see why the Zombies.NU/DayZero developers are relunctant share their server files that they've spent 1000s of hours working on. One of the good reasons for this is to prevent hackers/script-kiddies.

Another is that the mod runs best on the servers hosted by Zombies.NU as they aren't strictly server-grade hardware.. i.e. the primary server running DayZero is an i5 @ 5 GHz, database stored on RAM-disks etc.

DayZero prides itself on one of it's core factors of high performance :)

 

But let's not get off-topic too much!

What he means is that if DayZero used ANY part of the original DayZ mod (loot, zombies, buildings, etc...) It falls under the "share alike" TOS and has to be publically released. That's why Origins was getting into trouble. They are using assets that they didn't develop and not making it oublically accessible.

Will you get a C&D letter? Probably not, but the developers are playing a shady game by not sharing :)

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What he means is that if DayZero used ANY part of the original DayZ mod (loot, zombies, buildings, etc...) It falls under the "share alike" TOS and has to be publically released. That's why Origins was getting into trouble. They are using assets that they didn't develop and not making it oublically accessible.

Will you get a C&D letter? Probably not, but the developers are playing a shady game by not sharing :)

 

Well our lead developer/owner has been in direct contact with DayZ Devs (and BI) multiple times and the issue has never been raised.

 

I very briefly skim-read this so correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.bistudio.com/community/licenses/dayz-mod-license-share-alike

There's a lot of "If you share" but no "must share".

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Jesus H Christ, I broke down my last reply for you. Of course the more slots available the less people competing to get in, obviously.

But if a server is full, regardless of capacity, the absence of reserve slots makes it easier to get in compared to a full server with reserved slots.

The extra 5 slots can be an extra 10, but if they're reserved and the server is full, it makes no positive difference to players that did not buy a reserved slot. This of course depends on if I'm correct about the reserved slots sitting on top of the pile.

 

I really don't think it did work like that, i'm sure the reserved slots were a separate pool from the normal slots. But even if it didn't then what you're saying about the situation when the server is full is true but it's sidestepping the fact that extra slots means that it will be full less of the time. Overall, taken over an extended period while, individually, the time you have to wait might be longer the number of times you have to wait is reduced, in practice it probably has an insignificant effect on your total time spent queuing in the long run.

 

It's all about opinions though and I guess we're not going to agree on this one, for me I have no issue with cosmetics or reserved slots, it has no effect on in-game balance and acts as a thank you to people who are prepared to support a server.

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I see what you're saying, Irongiant, but in your scenario where the servers are not full to capacity, you are in effect removing the need for the reserves slots; that's when you know the server/community/game is waning. Sorry I couldn't resist carrying it on. It's been good to talk.  :)

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It's been a while but if I remember correctly, a player with a reserved slot would trump a player without one, right?

So, you have 55 players, 5 of those places reserved and already taken. For me to get in wouldn't 6 players have to leave, leaving one slot unreserved?

Also, wouldn't I need to be hoping that none of the other guys waiting to get in had a reserved slot? If they did, they would reoccupy any slots from 51-55 that became available. Spamming enter would only become viable when player count dropped to 50, right?

At the time Dayzero was king, and this particular server was full, and had no shortage of people reoccupying reserved slots 51-55 as and when they became available.

Without the reserved slots I would have had an equal chance of getting that newly available slot as the rest of the guys Spamming enter.

 

Theoretically yes, realistically no. It's rare for even 1 reserved slot to be in use, go check the stats on gametracker.

 

On top of this is the fact that servers simply cap out, we don't want to fracture the community through multiple servers if we can avoid it. We'd rather have a few hours of playercap and then 20 on in offpeak than not hit server cap during peak and have 3 people on during offpeak.

 

Does the first scenario lead to more reserved slots being sold? Yes. But the main motivation is to keep a consistently okay playercount throughout the day.

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please , not something like perks insert ... never heard of something like that ... a voluntary donation, which is Donat , but should bring no benefits with themselves ... no pay to win! and hoster offering something because they want to earn money or the Serer otherwise can not hold , should only make no server ! I 've never seen a good running server where there are something like perks ... any donation should bring if no benefits with themselves . host server should be hobby , not be used to earn money, or are trying to earn money !

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Reserve slots are still sold. You give a "SET" amount of money and "IN RETURN" you get a "Reserve Slot." The Definition of "BUY" = "Obtain in exchange for payment". If i was to ask if i can get a reserve slot. I would be turned down. But if i payed the amount you set then i would be able to get want i wanted. Same thing with humanity. People like MGT, do that who humanity thing. But to me, am cool with it. If since giving money to keep something online is a "Good Thing" then why not give humanity ingame? You get humanity ingame when you do do things and donating is a good thing. Everyone here, who thinks that reserve slots are allowed and are not violating any TOS . Then i would love to play on your server and I want a reserve slot as well. As if this was true then i should be able to get one without having to donate.

 

 

BI Quote of donations. Notice as i Bolded a line and i underline something.

 


Yes. Voluntary donations are allowed and are not considered to be a commercial use. Nevertheless, in any way making the “donation” as part of a condition to receive access to/or getting any part of offered content would be in breach of the License Agreement. The content you create must be available to all whether they donate to you or not.
The fact that you are getting donations is not a problem, but they must be provided voluntarily, i.e. not providing donations must not prevent anyone from accessing the content, download it or store it in another place and operating it there.
To avoid misunderstanding, all access or the content has to be free of any charge.

 

 

Also for ZombieNU about your server files. I would like some server files.

 


The content you create must be available to all whether they donate to you or not.

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I'll sum it up for everyone in this thread because it gets posted every few months. BI doesn't give a shit and if they did a lot of people wouldn't even have servers. It took them years to go after Origins and look at them they are still kickin. People will always be on the side of the fence of "oh pay 2 win is dumb and not fair" then the server owners wouldn't have a server to run for you to play on. It isn't cheap to run them and I can't imagine the cost of all Maca's servers with good hardware would run him per month.

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So many Internet-lawyers in this thread. It's almost starting to look like the threads of the early 2000's where everyone was an IT-professional.

The bottom line is that some of you do seem to comprehend that having a server that uses bandwidth isn't free, and that administrating such a server is taxing and requires a lot of work.

Some of you understand this and have no issue with some people donating toward that and getting a slot on those servers, or perhaps getting to wear a skin.

Personally I decided to help out with administrating for ZNU, help out the community, and give back to the devs, and 'lo and behold, I got some perks for that.

Some of you on the other hand simply want things for free, do not plan to donate or work for it at all, and are pissed if you don't get what you want for free, now.

And use anything as an excuse or a means to get what you want for free. Basically the leeches of the Internet.

Then there of course is the fact that some admins have setup options to pay for ingame items. I can never say I approve of that. Never liked it in MMO's, nor do I like it here.

And most people seem to be in agreement that this is where the line is drawn.

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Just thought I would jump in here as an Australian voice on this issue.

 

Donating for in-game advantages (pay to win) makes sense for server operators who don't have the funds to operate a server continuously without financial support from their players. Ignoring the fact it's ARMA 2/3, donations from the community make sense. However the donations must be for the betterment of the community. When I say for the betterment of the community, I mean that any funds must go back into the community to improve everyone's experience, be it server upgrades, paying for software licenses, additional servers or services like TeamSpeak, e.t.c. Hosting in Australia is very expensive (costing anywhere upwards of 3-4x that of the UK or US), so you will generally find AU hosts will have some kind of donate-for-perks system. BMG does not use these systems. Our donations go straight into hardware and software costs. We're also self-funding, so we don't rely on donations for month-to-month bills.

 

My issue with servers which utilise pay-to-win (that is rewarding donations with in-game perks) is that it allows members with financial advantages over others to gain possible unfair advantages in-game. Any in-game reward must be balanced so that a donation of $5 does not result in someone who can not afford to donate being stomped on by donators. A good example of this being done wrongly is a gaming network in Australia which allows donators to spawn in with semi-auto sniper rifles, the largest backpack and camo clothing. Not only is this unfair because they spawn in at coastal locations, meaning new players have very little chance of getting anywhere, but because these are not one-offs; they could died, respawn, and have a mate come pick up that loot. As we know, in ARMA 2 Epoch, the economy isn't great at balancing itself, so when a group of 2 or 3 has 20-30 Cheytachs in their possession, it gets very unfair very quickly. Other non-advantageous perks such as reserved slots would be much fairer.

 

 

This is not Origins and the dev's are not led by kingcunt

 

Glad to see someone else sees through his bullshit ;)

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I'll sum it up for everyone in this thread because it gets posted every few months. BI doesn't give a shit and if they did a lot of people wouldn't even have servers. It took them years to go after Origins and look at them they are still kickin. People will always be on the side of the fence of "oh pay 2 win is dumb and not fair" then the server owners wouldn't have a server to run for you to play on. It isn't cheap to run them and I can't imagine the cost of all Maca's servers with good hardware would run him per month.

 

You are posting as if you honestly believe it is ran as a hobby... Really...

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I have had dedicated root server since about 15 years now, most time with linux running. I never took money from  ppl that played on my server, used my forum, neither I took money from ppl which got a email address on my domain. I got some money back with advertising, I paid tax for that in germany, but never ever demand money from my ppl.

 

If admins take money or not, I would say it is up to them, but if it is against BI's rules, then they should not do it and for my understanding, it is against their rules.

I won't play on a server, where you can get something in game for money. I will not pay for a reserved slot.

It is true, that player are asking for every shit to get an advantage in game... The only thing I did, when I make a mistake and a player lost for example his chopper, then I gave him a new one. But they don't have the right to demand.

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You are posting as if you honestly believe it is ran as a hobby... Really...

 

You are posting as if you honestly believe it is ran as a business... Really...

 

My guess is you've never put in the time and effort or understand creating/running a community.

 

If you really think people are doing this as a business you are SADLY mistaken.

 

Pretty sure Maca's hourly rate would be like $0.02/hr ROFL.

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And use anything as an excuse or a means to get what you want for free. Basically the leeches of the Internet.

.

I can't believe you've just said that in defence of what I would liken to parasites.

When I buy a game I expect that the spending stops there, apart from future expansion packs which are entirely optional purchases.

As I asked yesterday, why the fuck did these big communities allow themselves to grow to the size of a business if they're not one?

As the chap said a few posts up, hosting games should be a hobby, where a clan or whatever, club together and rent a server.

Selling other peoples' creations and getting away with it through loopholes or creator apathy, is in my opinion, parasitic.

And what I think is worse, is that this is an industry with a substantial number of children among its population. Surely I don't need to spell out why that makes it worse?

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You are posting as if you honestly believe it is ran as a business... Really...

My guess is you've never put in the time and effort or understand creating/running a community.

If you really think people are doing this as a business you are SADLY mistaken.

Pretty sure Maca's hourly rate would be like $0.02/hr ROFL.

I bet it was a different story when the game was at its peak.

Those communities running a transparent donation banking system, basically you can see how much is donated, like on Enjin sites. Well, as the game peaked, the few communities I frequented were rolling in cash, receiving double what their costs were every month. And they were just donations.

I can't imagine how much cash those really big 'communities' sucked in during the height of Dayz and varying mods.

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Not DayZ specifically but Arma servers in general, Blackwing Gaming (BWG / Altis Life) servers - at one point had just short of 10k euros in one month, more so the month before.. according to the donation box anyway. They were selling houses, custom house plots, cities, helipads ect ect.. that made a mint off of Altis Life. I'm sure other DayZ servers have made a few grand here and there.

 

I speak from experience that the donation box is in no way a true representation of what actually stays in the account though, people can be fickle and claim it back for many reasons... especially when they end up banned because they think donating is immunity to the server rules.

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