Carl-R Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Summary/TL:DR: Its not your game to monetize and you'll only care when you're caught, like piracy.. there are so many people doing it, it takes a while if at all before people are caught and punished. Though don't be surprised if your servers are blacklisted on popular browsers or even on official browsers, which will kill servers and communities off. Stop using excuses for why you're doing what you're doing, if you're providing outside of your means to provide then its time to tighten that belt buckle. I'd liken surviving off of donator shops and perks akin to taking steroids, once you have no more steroids left you're going to lose those gains very quickly. Amen. Uro and Sequisha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cen Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 So the automatic assumption is that all server owners that accept donations and have perks have "monitized" the game and our pockets are filled with all kinds of money? LOL, got it. Flosstradamus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flosstradamus Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hahaha that's terrible! Anybody who buys that shouldn't even be playing Epoch/DayZ, more money than sense, I hope BI come down on people who allow that big time. I've never allowed that kind of stuff myself at all. You go into hosting knowing all the risks financially and time-wise, that it'll most likely never be permanent and it could all go to shit at any point. Allowing stuff like this to get money off people (who are just stupid to give you it) makes you look like a complete tool. BI doesn't give a shit even though they said its not allowed. I haven't seen them go after anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) So the automatic assumption is that all server owners that accept donations and have perks have "monitized" the game and our pockets are filled with all kinds of money? LOL, got it. I wouldn't say it's an automatic assumption, as I'm sure there's differing views. In my opinion the exchange of perks for cash is monetizing the game. Regarding what's in your pockets, or rather your PayPal account, depends on how successful your server model is. I've never seen nor heard of your servers, Cen, so I'm not including you in this next comment, but if the cap fits.............. Receiving monies in exchange for the sale of intellectual creations owned by someone else is piracy. Edited to add....I should've included "without permission" in the above sentence. Apologies to those who have been granted permission. Edited October 11, 2014 by SkyDogs ToejaM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flosstradamus Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I wouldn't say it's an automatic assumption, as I'm sure there's differing views. In my opinion the exchange of perks for cash is monetizing the game. Regarding what's in your pockets, or rather your PayPal account, depends on how successful your server model is. I've never seen nor heard of your servers, Cen, so I'm not including you in this next comment, but if the cap fits.............. Receiving monies in exchange for the sale of intellectual creations owned by someone else is piracy. And you never downloaded any kind of music or saved an image to your computer? GTFO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl-R Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 And you never downloaded any kind of music or saved an image to your computer? GTFO... i do, but i dont sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flosstradamus Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 i do, but i dont sell it. Regardless if you don't sell it. It's still considered Piracy as you are downloading without paying for the music. All those people suffer because you download their music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 And you never downloaded any kind of music or saved an image to your computer? GTFO... Not so much music, but I've stolen lots of movies, TV programmes and the odd game. The only thing I've ever sold that was pirated was a tape recording of an album. What does GTFO mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flosstradamus Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Not so much music, but I've stolen lots of movies, TV programmes and the odd game. The only thing I've ever sold that was pirated was a tape recording of an album. What does GTFO mean? it means Get The Fuck out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cen Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I wouldn't say it's an automatic assumption, as I'm sure there's differing views. In my opinion the exchange of perks for cash is monetizing the game. Regarding what's in your pockets, or rather your PayPal account, depends on how successful your server model is. I've never seen nor heard of your servers, Cen, so I'm not including you in this next comment, but if the cap fits.............. Receiving monies in exchange for the sale of intellectual creations owned by someone else is piracy. Edited to add....I should've included "without permission" in the above sentence. Apologies to those who have been granted permission. How exactly is this considered piracy when BI themselves say it's allowed. Once again let me post their TOS "Is there any acceptable way I can make money on my server/website? Yes. Voluntary donations are allowed and are not considered to be a commercial use. Nevertheless, in any way making the “donation” as part of a condition to receive access to/or getting any part of offered content would be in breach of the License Agreement. The content you create must be available to all whether they donate to you or not. The fact that you are getting donations is not a problem, but they must be provided voluntarily, i.e. not providing donations must not prevent anyone from accessing the content, download it or store it in another place and operating it there. To avoid misunderstanding, all access or the content has to be free of any charge." Please read that VERY carefully. Donations are voluntary, check Items are all freely available in game, check non-donators have same ability to get in-game items as donators do, check So the way I see it, humanity, starter crates, briefcases, etc... are all just fine to BI. Reserved slots, not ok based on that statement from BI. I cannot receive a reserved slot unless I pay for it. Flosstradamus and MassAsster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flosstradamus Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Pretty much what Cen said is true. Which is why MGT guys can get away with offering humanity in exchange for donations because its freely available to anyone in the game regardless if they pay for it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theirongiant Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 BI don't seem to have a problem with big server companies making money off their player base, it's only when the end users are seeking a little help in covering their costs that they get upset. I think most people would agree that pay 2 win is bullshit but I can't see the problem with having cosmetics or reserved slots for donators but as it stands that is against the rules. What does piss me of is that every single one of us knows that we could jump on any BI game and be on a pay 2 win server in seconds so the only people losing out are those of us that actually abide by the rules. They need to shit or get off the potty otherwise it's pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selestic Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 "Nevertheless, in any way making the “donation” as part of a condition to receive access to/or getting any part of offered content would be in breach of the License Agreement. The content you create must be available to all whether they donate to you or not." Cen how about those bases in your server players can buy? That content is available to everyone no matter if they donate? How do I get Villa for myself without donating to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cen Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I don't have any pre-fab bases or vehicles.... you must be looking at the wrong server! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 How exactly is this considered piracy when BI themselves say it's allowed. When I talk on public forums I always try to cover myself in the wording I use, and on this occasion I very nearly slipped up, but I edited my post prior to your reply. This is what wrote, including the edit. Receiving monies in exchange for the sale of intellectual creations owned by someone else is piracy. Edited to add....I should've included "without permission" in the above sentence. Apologies to those who have been granted permission. If it's allowed as you say, then knock yourself out, but on an ethical point, and ethics is opinion based by the way, I think it stinks, but hey, I'm just one guy on the internet. When I have time I'll look further into the BIS ToS and the pay to win models on these communities receiving monies from eager kids. Sequisha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selestic Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 http://atdgaming.net/index.php?/store/category/2-epoch-items/ That Villa for example is not pre-fab base? Or am I looking at the wrong ATD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cen Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 http://atdgaming.net/index.php?/store/category/2-epoch-items/ That Villa for example is not pre-fab base? Or am I looking at the wrong ATD? That villa is a building and can be stolen and taken by anyone on the server just like any other building in-game that you choose to build a base in. They don't have any sort of "dome protection" that only allows donators access to it. You seemed to have glanced over this part: Also, not sure where you got the vehicle thing from... Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selestic Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 But still someone has to pay 40€ to get it spawned in the first place and with indestructible cinder the securing is not that hard so after that there is zero chance of getting part of it. This is very questionable to say the least. Have BI checked your business model and agreed with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cen Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 They don't have to pay anything, they are free to use any building they want as long as it follows our server rules for building. I have no business model, this isn't a business, and I doubt BI cares about me to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogs Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Just looking at that featured products page linked above has really taken me aback. I'm not currently informed enough to start slinging mud, so I'll bow out until I do know what I'm talking about, but for the love of God, kids, learn the value of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selestic Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Well thanks for clarifying this for me anyways Cen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequisha Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I want to thank Toejam for taking this opportunity to get rid of the pay2win stuff and abide by our guidelines, I'll try to hop on your server later and get into trouble! Bleach and ToejaM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayzlauncher Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Its easy to claim you want to get rid of your donations perks when the money isn't rolling in like it was before aye? But when the money was rolling in when the popularity was big, and you had months of payments saved. it wasn't so much of a priority to get rid of the perks system. Hmmmmmmmm. Slightly dishonest to try and play the good guy and concerned server owner now. Especially when its purely to get an A3 server. But people can continue to blow stoor up your arse and say you're a "good guy" Sorry just saying it as it's blatantly obvious. (Fyi; I have no problem with people having perks, nor do I have a problem with people not having them) Nailed it! Its all complete bullshit and arse licking... Namindu and ruubje11 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crush Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 toejam charged rapid for a base and he charged me for a building crate he never gave these items away free to anyone else. Namindu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToejaM Posted October 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I want to thank Toejam for taking this opportunity to get rid of the pay2win stuff and abide by our guidelines, I'll try to hop on your server later and get into trouble! Any time, its been a long time coming - fire me your GUID and I'll pre-emptively whitelist you.. I think we can trust you right? You _may_ be known within the Epoch community? ;) *ignores the straw clutching pay2win haters above* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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