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Perks for donating..


ToejaM

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I've wanted to pull these for a while within my community and I always actively looked for the best way to make the minimum donation goal we need to survive each month, I explain a little more in the thread I'll link but I'm making this thread to maybe encourage others to stop accepting donations in return for perks.

 

Someone said that we (CPC) are "known for pay2win" which is entirely inaccurate but that depends on what level of pay2win you accept, we were certainly not the worst for it and we always offered free and alternative methods of obtaining the perks we offered, such as forum posting, idling servers, taking part in admin events ect ect and we always encouraged those who asked "can I buy / donate for this" to use the free/alternative methods before parting with money.

 

I just made this thread on my forum:

http://www.cpc-gaming.eu/forum/m/12670048/viewthread/16222668-donator-perks-update

 

I hope that those of you who have perks for money or item shops can do the same. If you're thinking of hosting an Arma 3 Epoch server, don't bother applying unless you're prepared to remove your perks for money methods permanently, temporarily removing them will not be a long term solution for hosting an Arma 3 Epoch server.

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+1 for this... CCG are the worst for it. Practically have to hand your wallet over to them to get anywhere in their servers. Hence why I actively boycott them when my friends play on their servers ;-)

 

Not only is it completely against BI's license but it is also against Epoch MOD's T&C's.

 

This is not Origins and the dev's are not led by kingcunt, so if you run an Epoch MOD (DayZ(Arma 2) or ArmA 3) then get rid of your pay2win shit it's not welcome, if you can't afford to run a server without it then you need to either shutdown or get your playerbase to donate just to keep the server alive it's that simple.

 

Regards,

 

Pry

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I can see how the money is definitely a factor for many people who host servers with perks, they see popular servers hitting targets every month and they think.. I can easily milk people for more.. we had lots of people offer to buy themselves out of bans, people offering us money to ban other people, people offering us money for things we didnt have a perk for (base building kit is what we had, I had a soft spot for those who work hard but dont want to be left behind!), people offering money for permanent iron domes ect.. anything you can think of being possible in Arma we had someone offer us money for it.. people got offended to when I refused.

 

We had people join the server and say "What do I get if I donate?" and then when it wasnt enough, i.e no loadouts.. they'd insult the server and leave. Though we've also had people leave the DayZ Epoch server because you couldn't do the kung fu animation.. people can be fickle!

 

People want everything to be casual and there is no respect for anything difficult in a game anymore.. and they said there was a recession recently! lol

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"Can I host game server and "sell or lease ingame items" or "pay to play" or similar gameplay monetizing methods?

No."

 

 

 

and again

 

 

"Is there any acceptable way I can make money on my server/website?

Yes. Voluntary donations are allowed and are not considered to be a commercial use. Nevertheless, in any way making the “donation” as part of a condition to receive access to/or getting any part of offered content would be in breach of the License Agreement. The content you create must be available to all whether they donate to you or not.

The fact that you are getting donations is not a problem, but they must be provided voluntarily, i.e. not providing donations must not prevent anyone from accessing the content, download it or store it in another place and operating it there.

To avoid misunderstanding, all access or the content has to be free of any charge."

 

 

 

You are not allowed to sell/offer/give-away donor items period. If you are giving someone a "Free Item" because they donated, that same "Free Item" must be available to anyone who does not donate as well. Should take care of your "pay to win" scenario.

Edit:

My mistake, I misread the point of the thread.

 

http://www.bistudio.com/english/community/game-content-usage-rules

http://www.bistudio.com/english/community/licenses

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Good that Bi has that setup and hope Epoch is quick to do something about host´s trying that shit.. Seriously I don´t see the difference between paying a server admin for advantage´s then paying a Cheatengine community for scripts.. 

 

Pay to win is so damn lame.

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I would like to offer an opposing point of view and this is NOT an attack on CPC at all, you just happen to start the topic :)

 

Anyone who runs a GSP-hosted server should not reply on the topic as they have no idea what it takes to run a community/multiple servers.

 

If you are talking about spending $30/mo for a server, cool, pay for it own your own, have fun with it, get some friends, and go loot!

 

If you start growing a community and start getting demand for more servers as your player base grows, the only logical step is to add dedicated hardware into the fold.

 

Now we all know how optimized A2 is to run  B) so getting hardware with a good CPU is critical to run multiple DayZ servers. 

 

Guess what? That hardware doesn't come cheap!

 

So bills start adding up, players want to help support the community, but they have come to expect something in return. That's where the donation perks come in to play.

 

Are there some server owners out there to blatantly make money, sure, but I doubt that's the case with most.

 

So do I have donator options for players in my community, you bet I do. Are they OP and ridiculous? Not by my standards (we don't have loadouts).

 

When you get to the point where you're spending $500+/mo to run servers, you need that community support or you will sink.

 

Bottom line is that if you give players a fair server to play on, with a great admin team, then you will get the support of your players and your community will grow.

 

Just some insight from a guy who runs DayZ servers  (flame suit on)  B)

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Hmm starting to like Breaking Point´s modell where they stand for the admins, community and the donation perk is VIP status which only lets you access 5 VIP slots on the servers.

 

 

"Bottom line is that if you give players a fair server to play on, with a great admin team, then you will get the support of your players and your community will grow."

 

What happens when the communities start going after eachothers playerbases and offering more and more perks with better advantage´s. You offer gamechangers so people that makes the Humanity system totally useless, humanity resets so people don´t have to stand for their actions, gold and what not wtf dude, have fun in your cheat community.

 

If all set on just offering 5 VIP slots on the servers which is working for BP then I think it would be ok anything other is just ridiculous, VIP slots are sanctioned by Bi.

 

 

Edit: How can you call your servers FAIR i think you have missed out something in school here.

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If you think players join servers based on their donation perks, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Realize that only a small % of the player base actually donate and help support the servers.

 

What in your mind isn't fair on my servers?

 

When you spawn you're just like everybody else, regardless of if you've donated or not...

 

That's like me saying "I don't think it's fair that you play with a squad of 10 on a server because every time you die you'll just get a pick up and get right back to your gear."

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I do have to agree with CEN here,i've been playin in his servers for more than 4 month and i never donated whatsoever,well guess what they are always pretty full of people like me and i dont have the feeling others are winning just because they bought some cinder. Admins on most of the time,respectfull,and always helping survivors,what do you need more?

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If you think players join servers based on their donation perks, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Realize that only a small % of the player base actually donate and help support the servers.

 

What in your mind isn't fair on my servers?

 

When you spawn you're just like everybody else, regardless of if you've donated or not...

 

That's like me saying "I don't think it's fair that you play with a squad of 10 on a server because every time you die you'll just get a pick up and get right back to your gear."

 

Your options cost money but a big group everyone can join so it´s not even compareble. 

 

Not going to your site again but you have ereased the humanity system for some but not to others for example. When money is involved its not alway´s a choice for some people you know.

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I was paying £200 per month out of my own pocket with little to no donations from anyone within my community I was running. I then lost my job and could not afford to pay said price for a server each month so had to cancel/ The community soon died after as no one wanted to part with their own cash for something they were apart of. Something to think about for all those community owners out there....

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Dunno how old this is, CCG website is broke. But seriously...?

 

http://imgur.com/PH7nX57

Hahaha that's terrible! Anybody who buys that shouldn't even be playing Epoch/DayZ, more money than sense, I hope BI come down on people who allow that big time. I've never allowed that kind of stuff myself at all.

 

You go into hosting knowing all the risks financially and time-wise, that it'll most likely never be permanent and it could all go to shit at any point. Allowing stuff like this to get money off people (who are just stupid to give you it) makes you look like a complete tool.

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While this is a touchy subject, we are talking about supporting a server, not making money. Using donations as a way to get extra cash in your pocket is a bit meh. Over the years of hosting servers I have come to the realization if the community enjoys what they have been provided they will help support it. Having donation perks to support a dedicated server, horribly setup and crowded VPS's is very unprofessional. Hosting servers is a hobby to me and many others, not a business. This is where the line becomes fuzzy. A lot of server providers forget that.

 

If you can honestly say you can afford to host a quality server with good specs that will fulfill the needs of the game you are providing for a year, without a single donation then this is for you. If you are basing the dedicated server off of server donations, and need to fall back on donation perks in order to keep the server alive then this isn't for you. Many of us do this because we enjoy doing it as a hobby. We look at it similar to what a DM from DnD looks at it like. We enjoy providing entertainment for our community. 

 

Now don't get me wrong, getting those donations to help support a server, so it doesn't have to come out of your pocket are nice, setting the server model around it to survive is not.

 

Just my opinion.

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Yeah, I feel either way about this.... Would be nice to receive something for giving.... But you don't give because you want something in return, i feel you should give because you like the game and want to support the people who help make the mod..... As a courtesy. And in return, you receive good and constant content and good support.

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Yeah, I feel either way about this.... Would be nice to receive something for giving.... But you don't give because you want something in return, i feel you should give because you like the game and want to support the people who help make the mod..... As a courtesy. And in return, you receive good and constant content and good support.

Yeah that's the best way for sure. Giving people everything on a plate for money is silly and just promotes moaning on top of that, because if you give people stuff they expect it all the time. I can understand reserved slots but not in-game items and stuff.  Accepting donations cause people wanna see the server running is fair do's, taking money for a ton of in-game stuff and setting up stores and subscriptions is not the way to go at all.

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It simply comes down to, you did not create the game (Arma 2/3 in this case) nor the mod (DayZ / Epoch) and therefore you are not entitled to make any money from it, if you are receiving this money on the promise of giving content ingame away, i.e you are selling items.

 

However, I have always advocated that DayZ (and similar structured games) should be run by a big company (SOE / Blizzard MMORPG style) that provides the hardware/support for a fee (monthly sub) or through their own business model because it is a game that needs hardware provided (I'm not sure I agree that companies can sell multiplayer games for X price and then expect customers to buy even more equipment to be able to play it but thats another discussion) unbiased admins and fair decisions made, something you cannot guarantee will happen even with the best of servers out there. It takes time and effort to solve problems and those doing that SHOULD be paid for the time and effort they put in, if I could setup a legit server admin business I'd be all over it as I know I'd immediately have over a dozen well trained, capable, trust worthy staff and if profit was measured on how good admins were.. I'd buy you all a beer with my money ;)

 

If you want to provide a service and provide hardware for a community, you should have a model inplace that allows you to fund it without needing perks or item shops and if you can't, then you don't have a community worth keeping as they are not showing community spirit. What you are not allowed (I believe even legally, due to cease and desist orders being issued) to do is sell anything related to the game as it is not yours to sell. As per vbawols post donations should be given without return consideration.

 

Dota 2 is a perfect example of how a good game can sustain its self completely for free and by selling cosmetic items, that is the only way I'll ever agree with micro transactions as I really do not like pay2win and things have gotten out of hand with the current server hosting scene.

 

Yes, we offered base building kits but they were quite 'expensive' though this still did not stop people paying2win and after some research, we were close to the lower end compared to some servers especially at the start. I wanted both to keep my community alive and provide a way for decent community members to still be able to be a part of the community without being too far behind, what we did is definitely wrong and for the wrong reasons but with good intentions, whether people believe me on this I really do not care as the important people know the truth. Some communities are blatantly trying to make money while they still can as they know that people will buy their way through a game to get the upper hand. Someone likened it to buying scripts and tbh.. you're probably not wrong! The sooner you accept that people will be left behind due to various reasons, the better a community you will be able to provide. Strength in numbers, this is a survival game and I hate to relate things to real life when it comes to games.. its one time where it is as real and as balanced as it would be in real life, the only game changer is the skill of the individual.

 

Summary/TL:DR: Its not your game to monetize and you'll only care when you're caught, like piracy.. there are so many people doing it, it takes a while if at all before people are caught and punished. Though don't be surprised if your servers are blacklisted on popular browsers or even on official browsers, which will kill servers and communities off.

 

Stop using excuses for why you're doing what you're doing, if you're providing outside of your means to provide then its time to tighten that belt buckle. I'd liken surviving off of donator shops and perks akin to taking steroids, once you have no more steroids left you're going to lose those gains very quickly.

 

I personally want to bring CPC back to what it was once known for, being a harder place to play with zero pay2win, where the reason you play there is because you know you can trust the admins.

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Myself and a partner share the cost of a dedicated box.  It's $110 per month.  Sometimes we get donations from our gaming community and other times we don't and have to foot the bill ourselves.  We certainly don't mind doing it, but it's always better to have help to lighten the load.  The option of doing donator perks has come up from time to time, but we have always opted against it.  Our philosophy has always been that players need to earn whatever they get in the game.  You want a skyscraper base where you can hold 50 trucks inside and land 4 helicopters on top?  Fine, go for it.  But you need to acquire the materials yourself and build it from the ground up without assistance.  Oh any by the way, you have to not only build that monstrosity, but also maintain it.  Have fun with that!   :P

 

Many folks today have this built-in need for instant gratification.  I want what I want and I want it NOW.  They don't want to work for anything and feel that the world owes them something.  So they look for easy outs.  In our minds, pay to win servers fall into such a category.  There, gamers have a place where they can throw an admin a few bucks and get better weapons or a custom base or an armed vehicle, and they don't have to do anything besides sit in front of their keyboards.  Epoch and BI rules notwithstanding, we feel that that is wrong and it cheapens the experience.  What's more, it's certainly not fair to those who cannot afford to buy such things.  Yes, some people have been blessed with a mommy and daddy who have basically given them a blank checkbook.  But there's many more people who live paycheck to paycheck.  So how is allowing donator perks even providing a fair and level playing field for all of your players?  Just because everyone that plays on your server has the "opportunity" to purchase the same perks doesn't mean that they all have the financial ability.  

 

As a server owner and admin myself, I am fully aware of the expenses that need to be paid in order to run a gaming community.  With every server or dedicated box you add your costs can increase dramatically.  And without donations of some form coming in then it's impossible to keep the lights on.  But our belief has always been that it's the quality of your people that determines what kind of gaming community you are.  It's not about how many players you have or how many servers your manage.  Personally, I wouldn't want to be a part of a community with hundreds or a thousand members.  At that point you're just another face in the crowd.  Our community is small and we are all pretty close-knit.  Some of my members I consider close personal friends and brothers.  I won't ever allow my community to grow past the point where I can't fund it all myself.  Counting on members for $500 plus in donations every month is just not smart.  What if one day the money stops coming in?  Then you've only succeeded in setting yourself up for failure.  We fully realize that because of that mindset, U4G will probably never compete with the likes of BMRF or CCG, and I'm totally ok with that, because at the end of the day we know that what we built is a solid community of friends and brothers, not just paying customers.

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